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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
> From: "Lynda" <lurine AT com-pair.net>
> > So, getting a certificate from Hawaii doesn't prove where one >is
> > born at all!
>
> Janice Okubo, director of communication for the Hawaii Department of
> Health explained that an 'out of state' birth certificate still lists
> where you were born...Bali was the example she gave. It would be a
> Hawaiian birth certificate showing that you were born in Bali, NOT
> Hawaii.

But it all relies on where the parent claims the birth took place, right?


> Maybe I don't understand the whole 'long form' thing. I've never had
> one. The short form has been all I ever needed. How many people
> actually have/need a long form birth certificate?

Me.
I have 3 birth certificates.  Because I was born in a military hospital,
there is a military record that counts as one, but I don't know where it
would be.  The birth certificate which lists my biological mother and
her husband as my parents is sealed.  Her husband was not my biological
father, but he was the one in the military, and the state of SC had a
law at the time that if the mother was married, then the name of the
husband must appear as the father of the child, regardless of biology.
This is my official long form, with all the appropriate signatures,
background of my birthmother(ex. it records me as her third live birth,
length of labor, etc.)  This certificate is sealed by the state of SC,
and even though I know all the info on it, and had a caseworker read me
the info on it, I have never seen it with my own eyes nor can I obtain a
copy.

Third, and the one I have, is the one I use that shows my adoptive
parents as my parents.  Very strange to see because it is a lying
document.  No where does it say that I was adopted,,,it just treats my
adoptive parents as if they were my biological parents.  It is
interesting to note that the time of this certificate does not match my
time of birth on the other one, according to my caseworker.

If I were to have my birthmother's body exhumed for DNA and have a DNA
test to prove she is my mother, and have my halfsister and halfbrother
testify on my behalf, and have my biological father's family testify on
his/my behalf since he is also deceased, then I could petition the court
to unseal the record and then to issue a new long form, which would list
My biological mother, her husband(my legal father), my biological
father, my adoptive mother, and my adoptive father, the place, time,
date of relinquishment, date of adoption, etc.  This would help for
genealogical purposes for my descendants.  Sadly, I believe that this
will have to be done by my daughter or granddaughter, because as long as
I am alive, I believe that the record will remained sealed.
Confidentiality is lost upon death.

My husband was born in Bermuda.  He has a hospital birth certificate
with his footprint(proof in the UK?), he has a military certificate
because he, too, was born on a Navy base, and somewhere in GB, I'm sure
there is another certificate.  The one he has now is the long form,
showing his parents and the military information, listing them as US
citizens, etc.

The thing is, many people have a need for more than one certificate,
either because of adoption(which applies in Obama's case when his name
was changed to Barry Soetoro) or military dual citizenship
possibilities, or weird state anomalies.  As an aside, I'm wondering how
Barack changed his name back.  Perhaps grandma helped once he was back
in Hawaii, but Hawaii should also have court records of that name
change.  Unless Soetoro relinquished parental rights, he would still be
Obama's legal father.  Anyway States can issue various 'certificates'
some contain more information, some may be based on sworn information of
the parents, others may be based on hospital records, some may be a
generic computer generated certificate, etc. etc.  Each state has their
own special hoops and such to jump through.  In Hawaii, they
differentiate between a 'certificate' and a 'certification of live
birth'.  In common use, we just say birth certificate, but in a court of
law, one document holds more weight than the other.  Of the three
documents Obama had a choice of providing, he provided the one with the
least legal weight, and had the other one, his long form, protected by
the law firms.  A normal person would not do that.

My nephew originally lived with his father Mr. K and carried his
father's last name.  When his father was jailed, (long story) Chris went
to live with my stepsister, his mother, who was married to a Mr. G.  Mr.
G adopted Chris in an open adoption and his name was changed, a new
birth certificate was made, etc.  Years later, after my stepsister
divorced Mr. G, Chris at the age of 18, went back to court and had his
name changed back to K.  For this process, one similar to what Obama
must have done, there would be 3 separate court proceedings.  Why has
Obama keeping this information sealed?  Was it done in Indonesia or
Hawaii?  We just don't know.

When I was hired by the PD, I had to provide a long form birth
certificate certified and sealed by the state of SC, and have it mailed
directly to the police internal affairs division.  All college
transcripts also had to be mailed and certified and sealed.  It had to
go from their hands to the cops,,,,I was not allowed to touch.
I suppose that is the most 'legal' thing I've needed my birth
certificate for, where just any copy, like the one I carry in my wallet,
just won't do.  My guess is that in this day and age of identity fraud,
states will become even more diligent about requesting long form
documents.
Lynn, I don't know about PA laws-assuming you were born there-but look
at your birth certificate.  Does it have a doctor's signature, a
registrar's, who sigs are on it, I assume you were not adopted.  What
you have in your possession may be the long form for your state.




 I just got a copy of mine from the
> state a couple of years ago, and there was no choice long or short
> form, they just sent the short form. Did the other candidates supply
> a long form birth certificate? Just trying to figure out why people
> are so obsessed about this..it's been a rainy day, so there isn't
> much else to do.

Don't make me envious about that rain!
Like I said, each state is different.  Comparing my state to yours or
yours to Hawaii is apples and oranges.

The so called Birthers are obsessed because they believe that Obama has
intentionally withheld information about his past.  He refuses to
address the many questions about his past.   For most of our previous
Presidents, they were well known nationwide and we knew all about them.
     Obama kind of came out of nowhere, and people were curious.  We
live in a world, sadly, where one is assumed guilty and they must prove
their innocence.  Most folks who are wrongly accused of something go to
the ends of the earth to prove their innocence, but Obama has not.  It
is like he doesn't care.  For a sitting President to allow all of this
hoopla to drag on and on if he has the high moral ground, you have to
wonder why.  Is he hoping that it will all go away?  Is he hoping that
by framing-rightfully or wrongly-this 'we want to know the truth'
movement as a witchhunt that that would be a shiny thing to distract us
from the actions being taken behind the scenes, or the lack of
accomplishment on his promises, or as a cover for I don't even know what...
Obama has promised Change and Transparency and asks us to trust his
ideas and goals, even though they will likely radically change our
country.  I think many people just want to make sure that he is on the
up and up.  If Obamacare goes through, a lot of folks feel that we will
have crossed the line in the sand to socialism...first the bailouts, now
healthcare...  I'm just relaying what I hear, not necessarily how I feel.
I would say that 85% of Birthers fall into the above category.  The
other 15%, sadly, is just out to get Obama.  It is probably a
combination of racism, xenophobia, and/or a fear of Islam.  Some people
just can't deal with change.  Others are just ignorant.
There is another reason that this story will not die, and I'm sure that
people realize this or not, but there is a growing number of countries
who are claiming that President Obama is Kenyan, and I believe that they
are also stirring the pot.  If it is true, and he really was born in
Kenya, it make Americans look extremely stupid and gullible, not
understanding our own laws and processes, and what does it say about our
ability to investigate, our ability to be truthful, what does it say
about our media's 'freedom' if they refuse to investigate claims?
There are quite a few 'Patriots', veterans, who are concerned about this.


I have to change the subject a bit and ask this question...
Last night, President Obama got involved and made comments about the
arrest of his Harvard friend.  I thought it was really inappropriate of
the President to do that, especially considering the remarks he made
saying that the police acted stupidly.  I'm thinking that he just did
not have the whole story.
It is my understanding that a neighbor called the police to report 2
black men breaking into the house next door.  The police arrived....(the
cops weren't just driving by and targeting two black guys).  My
thinking, and probably the officer's thinking, is that the neighbor who
called would not have called if she thought the intruder was the
homeowner.  So, the cops get there and the two men are inside the home.
Gates refuses to show ID at first, refuses to come outside, and is loud
and boisterous and abuse to the police.  When he does show ID to prove
he is who he says, it is a Harvard ID, not one with a home address.  All
he had to do was to provide a simple driver's license or something with
his address and picture on it.    How hard is that?  But no, in striking
modus operandi similar to Obama's refusal to ask questions, he refuses
to provide the requested information, and goes on the offensive, calling
the officer a racist.  I think the whole thing is a setup for a lawsuit.
The police officer was doing his job.  Many times, a homeowner can be in
the house with a burglar and not even know it.  The officer was right to
question Gates and the other guy.
I'm wondering if Obama read the police report.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/07/23/0498.001.pdf
Arresting someone for Disorderly Conduct is almost always a judgment
call.  I'm glad the charges were dropped, but I back the officer's call
to arrest him.  It sounds to me as if the guy was acting irrational and
out of character for a Harvard professor.
At any rate, I don't think the President should have commented on the
matter, and I certainly don't agree with his comments.
What do y'all think about that?

Bev





--
"Never expect magic from no where"  Baringo (Kenyan) working motto
http://erthnsky.blogspot.com/
EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA