permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

Hi Sandra...expect you are very much enjoying summer. We are fine thanks.
Nice to hear from you, but

The subject that I raised in my entry to this conversation was specific
about my knowledge of the operations of Geoff Lawton. I know first hand how
he has and still operates. I have heard many people repeat similar
experiences. The key line of this topic is how do we sit by and continue to
support this type of activity which is also being carried on by others. OK
it probably does take some abrupt communication mode to highlight such
activity, otherwise it would be an argument that would be so warm and weak
and go unnoticed. Several points I have made have not been discussed at
all. The reactions in main have been how I have communicated. In my opinion
the way I communicate at times as I have here is a far cry from the
realities of the subject matter.

I can't understand why people especially like yourself with so much talent
intelligence, experience, skills and energy in this movement does not
recognise the key issue of how we as a global network or family need to
begin dealing with the atrocities of Lawton et al. It is always easy to
kill the messanger, but what of the message ?

Shall we focus on that ? Or just shut the person up who speaks out ?
Steve Hart

On 15 July 2016 at 19:22, sandra joel campe <zukunftswerkstatt@riseup.net>
wrote:

> hi steve,
>
> a number of people have been offended by your email, and now you are
> telling them to take some B6? you can't be serious. i would say: you
> should reconsider your communication style. and i am saying this as a
> friend and person who has worked with you.
> how long do you want to continue using the european and international
> permaculture mailinglists offending and provoking people?
>
> not just those that are offended are put off by your communication
> style. and you may wish for a no-rule-policy - but i don't think you are
> contributing to this. to the contrary - i guess you will be the first
> one to be moderated.
> there is a difference between "freedom of speech and expression" and
> "being offensive". in all those years of internet use you must have
> heard of "nettiquette", e.g.: write as if that person is sitting in
> front of you.
>
> and i would like to know how this communication mode has actually
> contributed to your cooperation with others.
>
> apart from that, i hope you are doing well.
>
> best,
> sandra
>
> Am 15.07.2016 um 09:10 schrieb Steve Hart:
> > Rules are made for breaking is what I learnt in the school yard. What I
> > have found on lists such rules limit freedom of speech and expression. If
> > anyone is ever offended by someone elses views no matter how they are put
> > perhaps they need a good dose of B6.  I prefer to see lists with no
> > rules.....Steve Hart
> >
> > On 15 July 2016 at 18:32, scrooge McDuck <declan@planetmail.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Moderating involves enforcing rules by private warnings, more public
> ones
> >> added to the offering thread, and suspension of list membership for
> trolls
> >> and sharks.
> >> Posts should be on topic unless labeled '[OT]', and should not contain
> >> religion or politics. Unsupported personal abuse , or judgemental
> comments.
> >> Trolling, spam & advertising at products/services are taken more
> seriously.
> >> Site URLs in a sigfile are tolerated, but the sigfile should be short.
> Your
> >> sigfile is as long as they should be.
> >>
> >> Most lists have a set of rules on a webpage for the moderator to refer
> >> people to. It would be good to put up such a page. Then you are
> enforcing
> >> "The rules" and it's not just your opinion. Good rulesets abound online
> and
> >> you can plagiarise a few to get a rule set for this list.
> >> --
> >> Declan Moriarty
> >> Sent from my Android tablet with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my
> brevity.
> >> On 14/07/2016, 23:49 Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Toby Hemenway <
> toby@patternliteracy.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Along with Declan, I ‘d like posts here to be directly related to
> >>>> permaculture design, that is, will improve our ability to do design
> and
> >>>> understand permaculture.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So be it. I will do whatever I can to help that along. It is my
> preference
> >>> too.
> >>> Be sure to send me any useful management suggstions as Declan did.
> >>>
> >>> LL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Lawrence F. London
> >>> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> >>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
> >>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
> >>> https://ello.co/lflondon <https://ello.co/permaculture>
> >>> https://ello.co/permaculture
> >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> >>> permaculture mailing list
> >>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >>>
> >>
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> sandra joel campe
> sieben linden ecovillage
> d-38489 beetzendorf
> germany
> skype: xcampe.sinax
>



-- 
Kia ora Ehoa

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture International College
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com