permaculture

["scrooge McDuck" <declan@planetmail.net>]

I read all your posts Lawrence. I applaud your efforts to encourage more pure Permaculture discussion. I don't want to have to wade through the world's problems for the few scattered pearls of Permaculture.

What galls mei's that collectively there must be centuries of Permaculture experience on this list and nobody shares it. Look at recent threads.
--
Declan Moriarty
Sent from my Android tablet with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On 15/07/2016, 22:04 Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 11:08 AM, scrooge McDuck <declan@planetmail.net>
wrote:

>
> Can I make an appeal for constructive discussion of PERMACULTURE?


I just addressed this in several recent posts. Read and comment.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The list was formed in 1992 and
PERMACULTURE was the only topic discussed and this wen n for many years.
After that valued poster began peeling off because of too much non positive
feedback or too many off topic articles or whatever it was, maybe not
enough PERMACULTURE discussion.

Can we have more hands on discussion about all aspects of permaculture from
ethics ro earthworks to aquaponics now?
If anyone is interested in holding forth about nutrition, food and diet for
permaculturists I have another list just for that,

pchealth posting address for subscribers: pchealth@lists.ibiblio.org,
Permaculturist Health mailing list {} The Message Archives
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/pchealth/
The List Homepage
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/pchealth
Permaculturist Health is a forum for discussion and information exchange on
a wide range of health and nutrition issues faced by those involved in any
way with the global permaculture movement.

While looking for that I found a great website that Toby has created:

What Permaculture Isn’t—and Is November 28, 2012 By Toby Hemenway
<http://tobyhemenway.com/author/tobyhemenway/>
http://tobyhemenway.com/668-what-permaculture-isnt-and-is/
And I quote without permission this amazing paragraph from Toby, right in
sync with ongoing discussion threads, so to open yet another huge can of
worms:
"Permaculture is notoriously hard to define. A recent survey
<http://liberationecology.org/2012/11/14/wait-youre-studying-what-again-part-2/>
shows that people simultaneously believe it is a design approach, a
philosophy, a movement, and a set of practices. This broad and
contradiction-laden brush doesn’t just make permaculture hard to describe.
It can be off-putting, too. Let’s say you first encounter permaculture as a
potent method of food production and are just starting to grasp that it is
more than that, when someone tells you that it also includes goddess
spirituality, and anti-GMO activism, and barefoot living. What would you
make of that? And how many people think they’ve finally got the politics of
permaculturists all figured out, and assume that we would logically also be
vegetarians, only to find militant meat-eaters in the ranks? What kind of
philosophy could possibly umbrella all those divergent views? Or is it a
philosophy at all? I’m going to argue here that the most accurate and least
muddled way to think of permaculture is as a design approach, and that we
are often misdirected by the fact that it fits into a larger philosophy and
movement which it supports. But it is not that philosophy or movement. It
is a design approach for realizing a new paradigm. And we’ll find that this
way of defining it is also a balm to those in other ecological design
fields and technologies who get annoyed, understandably, when
permaculturists tell them, “Oh, yes, your work is part of permaculture,
too.”"

If someone feels we need warning about a certain dangerous Permaculture
> sharks references to online sources are a better approach than one sided
> polemics.


Another huge can of worms has been opened. May peop0le feel that it is
important to maintain high quality standards for permaculture definition,
education and practice. I think this is super important and that is an
understatement. I could go on for pages why I feel this to be true. Many
maintain that there are certain businesses misrepresenting their work as
true permaculture when in reality they are poseurs out for money first and
permaculture last. That is why warnings are posted from time to time. A
bit off the edge analogy:
As in Alien: Nostromo is committed to investigate any signals coming from
an external source during our voyage..........
......Mother has analysed the signal and says that it is a warning, we
should contact our friends and let them know......Ash: "well there's no
need to alert the exploration crew, they will know soon enough when they
get to their destination".
Maintenance of permaculture standards gets more important every month and
every year and for so many super important reasons.

We should all collaborate on a book to complement Scott's or write our own.
Mine would be about permaculture standards and why they are important.

LL


--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
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