permaculture

[joao pedro goncalves <joaovox@gmail.com>]

This second email on this topic could only happen because a previous email
got the feedback below inviting to somehow expand the understanding of
permaculture and its use on a very difficult need.

Further, on the topic:

Last June "Hearing in EU Parliament on Update on Organ
Pillaging/Trafficking in China

David's Notes for EU Parliament hearing"
<http://www.david-kilgour.com/2016/DK_Jun292016_Update_Bloody_Harvest_Slaughter_at_EU.pdf>

http://www.david-kilgour.com/2016/DK_Jun292016_Update_Bloody_Harvest_Slaughter_at_EU.pdf

http://www.chinaorganharvest.org/introduction/



If you care to read and present your questions and from all this feedback
proccess some learning (understanding of permaculture and the permaculture
"alternative nation" - Bill Mollison's term, what is and is not) and
individual and collective action might take place.

Possibly with tears in your eyes, we act with the most respect to the
victims of genocide today and everywhere, not just indifference or just a
horrible feeling and go on with my "permaculture day" as usual.

Disturbing question:
What if the "permaculture nation" in China or USA, or anywhere, was being
murdered, would the toppic fit here?

If permaculture does not already, as some of you point out, permaculture
must include "alternative nation strategies" to deal with such news, needs
of our fellow permaculture nation, aware of this, present in China for
instance.

Toby's reply (email below) "Forwarding “news” and a petition about yet
another example of human cruelty, of the thousands that we are all aware
of, does not add to our grasp of permaculture. What possible excuse is
there to forward this here? It teaches us nothing about “the genocide
sector” that we don’t know. It has nothing to do with permaculture."

And we do not know about: "permaculture nation answer to the genocide
sector" ...

Of course, all the feed back this as received so far here teaches us
something
 about our individual and collective understanding of permaculture present
in this list.

Do we accept the question "How does our "permaculture nation" (Bill's
sense) will react to news reporting genocide and proccesses addressing the
issue?"

It is surprising to see that one possible reaction / feedback to awful news
is: "We (this list - alternative nation) just block the news - block any
learning proccess". Then do we accept this question: "But, how does the
permaculture people/nation living in China will react to such feedback
coming from
permaculture nation living in USA and Europe?"

Such news need collective thoughtful observation and action and must not
receive "the blocking" feedback from the permaculture collective.

This needs thoughtful obervation: "The permaculture collective
responsability is different from the permaculture individual
responsability." / What we must do is different from what I must do.

Should we deny "our responsability"?

Understanding of permaculture and ecological principles is taking place
everywhere and the topic
of how "we as alternative nation" are going to integrate difficult
questions is here now.

The "I know better than you" type individuals feedback does not help, but

"Could you make the connection to Permaculture, the topic of this list
please?" opens the gates of heaven.

... so we could shift a bit towards
how do we as permaculture groups and the collective builds a observation
proccess and action that connects us in a synergistic
way with people outside the "alternative nation" working towards the same
goal.

Taking Toby's
"Back to solving problems we might actually solve, at a scale we can work,
with the people working on the same issues globally."

Let us take our permaculture understanding to help where there is a need.

And NOT say:
 "there is a genocide and crimes against humanity (not near us) but
permaculture understanding and I and we can not and must not do nothing
about it because permaculture says we can not do nothing about it, that we
as a collective must block this type of news to our collective
conversations".

We/Permaculture is here to serve all humanity, and must take into account
all our needs - permaculture people living in China too - and they must not
go alone with this.

We go on working towards a collective thoughtful observation not only "my
thoughtful observation"? Hopefully mostly outside this list.

This goes too to the portuguese permaculture group/list working on "local
diploma proccess".

Thank you for your feedback so far.

Now, time to take the goats out and flood irrigate the garden, they are
waiting longer than usual.

Best regards,

João



















On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
wrote:

> This post does not belong here. Forwarding “news” and a petition about yet
> another example of human cruelty, of the thousands that we are all aware
> of, does not add to our grasp of permaculture. What possible excuse is
> there to forward this here? It teaches us nothing about “the genocide
> sector” that we don’t know. It has nothing to do with permaculture.
>
> Trying to hide its non-permacultural nature by calling it a sector
> analysis tells me that the poster knows it doesn’t belong here.
>
> If someone wants to offer their own original thoughts about human rights
> with respect to permaculture, in their own words, I’d support that and read
> with interest. But simply forwarding to a permaculture list a petition and
> articles about a horrible situation is something I object to. Claiming it’s
> about sectors just makes it worse.
>
> Is there anyone else who doesn't want this list to be a dumping ground for
> all the sad news articles and petitions that are out there? Or would we
> like more of this?
>
> Will a post teach us something new or enlarge our grasp of permaculture?
> If it doesn’t have the word “permaculture” in it, or talk about design or
> regenerative solutions, I ask that we really think hard about posting
> (particularly forwarding) it here, especially since we regularly talk about
> what belongs here. Ironic that Declan just brought this up. Talk about not
> doing sector analysis before acting! The purpose (and name) of this list is
> decidedly a sector that influences what belongs here.
>
> Well, I guess I’m officially a curmudgeon, griping about slipping
> standards. I promise my next post will be positive. If I can just remember
> that promise!
>
> Back to solving problems I might actually solve, at a scale I can work
> with.
>
> Toby
> tobyhemenway.com
>
>
> > On Jul 14, 2016, at 5:21 PM, joao pedro goncalves <joaovox@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > for a global scale sector analysis - watch out for human rights
> violations
> > and genocide sector.
> >
> >
> >
> > *
> https://www.dafoh.org/petition-to-the-united-nations/signature-forms-2016-petition/
> > <
> https://www.dafoh.org/petition-to-the-united-nations/signature-forms-2016-petition/
> >*
> >
> > *
> https://www.dafoh.org/unethical-organ-harvesting/forced-organ-harvesting-in-china/
> > <
> https://www.dafoh.org/unethical-organ-harvesting/forced-organ-harvesting-in-china/
> >*
> > https://www.dafoh.org/evidence/matas-kilour-report/
> >
> >
> > *http://www.chinaorganharvest.org/introduction/
> > <http://www.chinaorganharvest.org/introduction/>*
> >
> >
> http://cja.org/downloads/Kilgour-Matas-organ-harvesting-rpt-July6-eng.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> http://endorganpillaging.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bloody_Harvest-The_Slaughter-June-23-V2.pdf
> >
> > Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIxE5kZXjsY&feature=youtu.be
> >
> >
> > Wikipedia:
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > Sem
> > vírus. www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > <#m_-3714442135340534012_DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > João Gonçalves
> >
> > "Ao comprar ou consumir de forma ética também está a intervir na
> paisagem e
> > a decidir quem tem trabalho."
> >
> > "Eating is an agricultural act"  -  "Comer é um acto agrícola" - Wendell
> > Berry
> >
> > "Permacultura (Cultura Permanente) é um sistema ético de design
> ecológico."
> >
> > (+351) 96 96 80 009
> > Chão Sobral - Oliveira do Hospital - Serra do Açor - Portugal
> > http://ecotrabalho.com/
> > http://permacultureglobal.com/users/902-joao-goncalves
> > http://chaosobral.org/index_pt.htm
> > http://www.youtube.com/joaovox
> > http://agricultura-familiar-tradicional.blogspot.pt
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/joaovox
> > http://picasaweb.google.pt/uniprochaosobral
> >
> > Para descobrir:
> > Documentário "Alface" na Aldeia das Amoreiras
> > http://vimeo.com/58999047
> > Permacultura na Serra do Açor - Portugal
> > http://permaculturinginportugal.net/blog/
> > "Comida que nunca acaba" / Permacultura no Malawi
> > http://www.neverendingfood.org/
> > Centro de Ecologia Integral
> > http://www.integralecology.org
> > Nyumbani - Kenya
> > http://www.nyumbani.org/about-us
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> permaculture mailing list
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> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



-- 
João Gonçalves

"Ao comprar ou consumir de forma ética também está a intervir na paisagem e
a decidir quem tem trabalho."

"Eating is an agricultural act"  -  "Comer é um acto agrícola" - Wendell
Berry

"Permacultura (Cultura Permanente) é um sistema ético de design ecológico."

(+351) 96 96 80 009
Chão Sobral - Oliveira do Hospital - Serra do Açor - Portugal
http://ecotrabalho.com/
http://permacultureglobal.com/users/902-joao-goncalves
http://chaosobral.org/index_pt.htm
http://www.youtube.com/joaovox
http://agricultura-familiar-tradicional.blogspot.pt
https://picasaweb.google.com/joaovox
http://picasaweb.google.pt/uniprochaosobral

Para descobrir:
Documentário "Alface" na Aldeia das Amoreiras
http://vimeo.com/58999047
Permacultura na Serra do Açor - Portugal
http://permaculturinginportugal.net/blog/
"Comida que nunca acaba" / Permacultura no Malawi
http://www.neverendingfood.org/
Centro de Ecologia Integral
http://www.integralecology.org
Nyumbani - Kenya
http://www.nyumbani.org/about-us