Homestead mailing list

["Lynda" <lurine AT com-pair.net>]

Ya know, I think if folks want to they can get along even if they don't 
agree.  I think the problem comes in when folks get into over PC mode or 
make a choice of being offended.  The games people play!  People make 
choices and some people choose to be offended when other folks don't agree 
with them.  Or, at least that is how I see it and it doesn't have to be that 
way.

I just got an e-mail from a gal who lives on the East Coast, in Connecticutt 
to be exact.  She is REPUBLICAN!!!, Jewish and a school-at-homer.  I'm as 
unRepublican as they come, a heathen and an unschooler.  Polar opposites! 
We're friends.  She wrote to wish me happy holidays and to say she 
appreciated that we talked because I opened her eyes to things she wouldn't 
have considered otherwise.  I feel the same about her.  We don't agree but 
we enjoy discussing how we don't agree.  We like to share different 
perspectives.  She doesn't expect me to agree with her and I don't expect 
her to agree with me.  NOR do we expect each other to put on our PC voices 
and play make nice.

James and I have known each other on the net for, hmmm, well more than a 
decade.  We rarely get along, rarely agree but that doesn't mean we can't be 
on the same list and share conversations without acting like two year olds. 
Well, most of the time <g>

I thnk another problem is that some people take themselves far too 
seriously!  And I mean FAR too seriously!  HELLO, it's the net, it really 
isn't real life.  They set themselves up to be offended and, I think they 
sometimes enjoy they fuss they cause by CHOOSING to be offended and having 
their, quite frankly, enormous egos wounded!  Come on folks, can't you hear 
the "how dare you" as they huff and figuratively stomp out of the room? 
Some folks just need to lighten up!

I don't think you had anything to apologize for!  I think those who CHOOSE 
to get all huffy owe YOU an apology!

This whole concept of wounded feelings on the net kinda reminds me of a 
quote from Eeanor Roosevelt "No one can make you feel inferior without your 
consent."   Which could easily be translated into "No one can make you feel 
offended, it is your choice."

And as to being respectful, I think folks need to remember that respect is 
EARNED, it isn't a given NOR is aging a means of earning it!

Plus, do tell, why is it that if someone is disagreeing they are always 
accused of "ranting" or "hysteria" or "cheap shots"?  Is this sort of like 
dropping the Nazi bomb in a conversation?

I don't think you've been bitten by the Teflon virus, I think you've been 
slightly hypnotised <g>  His concept of "team of rivals" is simply more 
smoke and mirrors.  So far, there are only a few that might be considered 
actual rivals.  O.K., so only one <g> and that has nothing to do with a team 
of rivals but more, IMNSHO, a means of keeping one's enemy close and taking 
them down with him if he goes down and thus making sure that person is 
tainted and not able to run for prez.  The rest, almost to a wo/man are less 
than 6 degrees from the Ayers political machine in Chicago and more and more 
comes out as he lies more and more about his past (like who hired his wife 
for her first job, etc.) the more that begs the lie.

And, let me disallusion folks on another way they think.  Not everyone puts 
on a phoney front on the net.  Some of us are exactly who and what we are 
and what you see is what you get, here or IRL!

As to Teflon, let me leave you with a quote from my friend in Connecticutt 
<g> "Mr. Obama, walk the walk or keep your Change."

Lynda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> The Big Evil Grin is me poking y'all with a stick, trying to stir it up
> and get people talking about something they *really* disagree
> about(politics), not arguing about who is an A+ homesteader and who is a
> hobby homesteader, etc. People seem frustrated beyond belief on the
> list for whatever reason lately(hence the title of this thread-Moods),
> and usually a good political fight helps relieve tension, so I was
> stirring one up by listing controversial news stories like the Blogo
> scandal.  Perhaps that was the wrong thing to do, maybe too soon since
> the last foray, maybe wounds still healing.  If so, I screwed up again.
>
> As far as forgiving me of recent upsets, I already apologized to the
> list, but I really don't feel that I need any forgiveness for
> stating my opinion or my feelings.
>
> This is a new thought for you?
> It is hard for me to remember when this list has EVER conducted itself
> in a useful political discussion.  That is why, until this election, I
> have stayed out of it.  Most of the people who have left over the years
> left, I think, because of politics.  It cuts right to the heart of the
> individual.  However, important arguments and important discussions
> should be entertained when an important choice is to be made, and when
> we all have such a personal/national stake in the matter, it can get
> ugly quickly.
>
> Well of course not, but I seriously doubt you intend to not voice your
> political opinion over the next 4-8 years, and if you can voice yours,
> then other people can voice theirs, right?  And the next thing you know,
> it's a free-for-all.  I believe it was you who told me that I should
> leave the kitchen if I can't stand the heat?  I challenge you or anyone
> else here on the list to search the archives for a political discussion
> that did not break down into rants and cheap shots in less than 10
> posts..maybe even less than 5.
> This reminds me of the scene in The Breakfast Club where Bender says:
> "Hey, how come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up,
> it'll be anarchy!"   So true.
> IMO, that devolvement you speak of is just the way this list operates,
> and I just think it is the medium's safety impression that allows much
> to be written.  We say things here that no one would ever say face to
> face. If we could actually SEE the hurt caused by our words, then I
> think we would not say as much as we do here, and perhaps abide by that
> old adage that you should not discuss sex, religion, or politics in
> polite company, and I think POLITE is the key word there.  If you
> discuss these things at all, then be prepared for the discussion to turn
> into something NOT polite.
>
> When Farmer left, that was a huge turning point for this list, imo.  He
> started his own moderated list where such discussions were verboten.  I
> know that almost everyone here is there, except for maybe a few.  This
> list has become the place where arguing belief is permissible, and other
> lists, because they are moderated, are more civil and purpose driven.
> Farmer did a great thing, but that doesn't devalue this list.  Only so
> much can be gained when there is avoidance of issues or censorship of
> thought.
> Here, our 'free for all' technique carries on.  The difference in
> recent(the last year) vs. the previous years conversations have been
> that more conservatives have voiced their opinions here.  Honestly, I
> never even thought much about liberalism vs. conservativism until this
> last year, when took off my homestead blinder goggles and took a hard
> look, that's when  I realized how liberal the main posters on the list
> are.  For example, the liberal contention might be in a heated
> discussion about whether or not someone should have to wait 3 days or 3
> weeks, with background checks, to buy a gun.  Were their rights
> violated?  Would it stop family violence?  Etc. Then, a conservative
> jumps into the fray and rocks the boat harder by reminding them of their
> constitutional rights, and that anyone and everyone should own a gun..no
> waiting, no checks.   So that would really shake things up, and suddenly
> core beliefs become threatened which further fuels the debate.  Does all
> this bickering and nastiness change anyone's mind?  I doubt it.
> However, it does teach us one thing, how to listen to the other side.
> It gives the conflict meaning.  It is a reminder to all that no matter
> how YOU feel about an issue, someone else, maybe even someone you
> consider family, or even your actual family, might feel completely
> opposite.  Our discussions here are an exercise in looking at the other
> side of the equation and that helps us in real life to do the same, and
> THAT makes us better as people.  Y'all have jumped on me about my
> patriotism, but I can say this kind of free and open exchange of ideas
> in a permanent medium such as the internet is a great thing, something
> that is not permitted in many countries throughout the world.
>
> I have to say this...
> I know Obama hasn't taken office yet, but so far, I am actually placated
> with his actions and picks for the most part.  I'm not sure that the
> corruption of the Chicago political machine is any worse than that in
> NYC or in Little Rock. It's only a big deal now because Obama is still a
> golden child who hasn't, in the eyes of the MSM, been tainted.  I
> believe that Obama's personal beliefs are as far left as you can get
> without becoming the Marxist Che Guevarra and inciting war.  His black
> liberation theology and his connections with the those who were active
> in the Black Panther organization and other radical groups have led me
> to believe that even if he, personally, would never go "that far", he
> has been exposed and indoctrinated in such by numerous people in his
> life.  Now, I tend to see that as more of a negative than a positive,
> but obviously, others disagree.  HOWEVER, since the election, he seems,
> to my great relief, and conversely, to the dismay of the very liberal
> left, he has moderated his actions and choices and words.  He is taking
> away much of my fear factor, and I don't think I am alone.  I like the
> team of rivals idea...it is what I have here on this list even...people
> who differ from you in opinion, but whom you respect for getting where
> they are in life and being confident in who they are.  It provides what
> we all need to evolve into higher thinking, and that is the balance of
> ideas.  However, you conservatives out there shouldn't go thinking I
> have succumbed to the Obama virus; I have not.  I have simply moderated
> my beliefs.  Like Lynn said, he is just same ol' same ol'-politics as
> usual, and while I agree with Lynn' sentiment on this, I know that you
> don't...Obama, for you Gene, is the name of the Revolution.
> I hope time proves you right, but it is looking like we both might be
> wrong about this guy.
> Respectfully,
> Bev
>
>
> --
> The true significance of Sacajawea's involvement in the Lewis & Clark
> expedition is that it was the first documented trip in history where men
> asked a woman for directions and followed them, allowing them to arrive
> at their destination.
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