Homestead mailing list

[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Gene GeRue wrote:
> On Dec 18, 2008, at 9:56 PM, EarthNSky wrote:
>
> > I have noticed, that despite Mr. Obama being in the news quite a 
> > bit, that he is not being discussed here...no mention of the 
> > inauguration, very little mention of cabinet picks, no mention of 
> > Hillary or Bill, almost no mention of the Blogo scandal, Rahm, the
> >  middle name issue, etc....very odd. <BEG>
>
> I presume that BEG means you beg us to forgive you for reminding us 
> of our recent upsets.


The Big Evil Grin is me poking y'all with a stick, trying to stir it up
and get people talking about something they *really* disagree
about(politics), not arguing about who is an A+ homesteader and who is a
hobby homesteader, etc. People seem frustrated beyond belief on the
list for whatever reason lately(hence the title of this thread-Moods),
and usually a good political fight helps relieve tension, so I was
stirring one up by listing controversial news stories like the Blogo
scandal.  Perhaps that was the wrong thing to do, maybe too soon since
the last foray, maybe wounds still healing.  If so, I screwed up again.

As far as forgiving me of recent upsets, I already apologized to the
list, but I really don't feel that I need any forgiveness for
stating my opinion or my feelings.

> It became obvious to me that we on this list are unable to have 
> respectful, useful political discussion.

This is a new thought for you?
It is hard for me to remember when this list has EVER conducted itself
in a useful political discussion.  That is why, until this election, I
have stayed out of it.  Most of the people who have left over the years
left, I think, because of politics.  It cuts right to the heart of the
individual.  However, important arguments and important discussions
should be entertained when an important choice is to be made, and when
we all have such a personal/national stake in the matter, it can get
ugly quickly.

 Seriously, it devolved to the
> point where you told me to stop speaking to you, at least two members
>  left the list, I seriously considered leaving the list--all because
>  of political rants, cheap shots, accusations and hysteria. Do you 
> really want more of that?

Well of course not, but I seriously doubt you intend to not voice your
political opinion over the next 4-8 years, and if you can voice yours,
then other people can voice theirs, right?  And the next thing you know,
it's a free-for-all.  I believe it was you who told me that I should
leave the kitchen if I can't stand the heat?  I challenge you or anyone
else here on the list to search the archives for a political discussion
that did not break down into rants and cheap shots in less than 10
posts..maybe even less than 5.
This reminds me of the scene in The Breakfast Club where Bender says:
"Hey, how come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up,
it'll be anarchy!"   So true.
IMO, that devolvement you speak of is just the way this list operates,
and I just think it is the medium's safety impression that allows much
to be written.  We say things here that no one would ever say face to
face. If we could actually SEE the hurt caused by our words, then I
think we would not say as much as we do here, and perhaps abide by that
old adage that you should not discuss sex, religion, or politics in
polite company, and I think POLITE is the key word there.  If you
discuss these things at all, then be prepared for the discussion to turn
into something NOT polite.

When Farmer left, that was a huge turning point for this list, imo.  He
started his own moderated list where such discussions were verboten.  I
know that almost everyone here is there, except for maybe a few.  This
list has become the place where arguing belief is permissible, and other
lists, because they are moderated, are more civil and purpose driven.
Farmer did a great thing, but that doesn't devalue this list.  Only so
much can be gained when there is avoidance of issues or censorship of
thought.
Here, our 'free for all' technique carries on.  The difference in
recent(the last year) vs. the previous years conversations have been
that more conservatives have voiced their opinions here.  Honestly, I
never even thought much about liberalism vs. conservativism until this
last year, when took off my homestead blinder goggles and took a hard
look, that's when  I realized how liberal the main posters on the list
are.  For example, the liberal contention might be in a heated
discussion about whether or not someone should have to wait 3 days or 3
weeks, with background checks, to buy a gun.  Were their rights
violated?  Would it stop family violence?  Etc. Then, a conservative
jumps into the fray and rocks the boat harder by reminding them of their
constitutional rights, and that anyone and everyone should own a gun..no
waiting, no checks.   So that would really shake things up, and suddenly
core beliefs become threatened which further fuels the debate.  Does all
this bickering and nastiness change anyone's mind?  I doubt it.
However, it does teach us one thing, how to listen to the other side.
It gives the conflict meaning.  It is a reminder to all that no matter
how YOU feel about an issue, someone else, maybe even someone you
consider family, or even your actual family, might feel completely
opposite.  Our discussions here are an exercise in looking at the other
side of the equation and that helps us in real life to do the same, and
THAT makes us better as people.  Y'all have jumped on me about my
patriotism, but I can say this kind of free and open exchange of ideas
in a permanent medium such as the internet is a great thing, something
that is not permitted in many countries throughout the world.

I have to say this...
I know Obama hasn't taken office yet, but so far, I am actually placated
with his actions and picks for the most part.  I'm not sure that the
corruption of the Chicago political machine is any worse than that in
NYC or in Little Rock. It's only a big deal now because Obama is still a
golden child who hasn't, in the eyes of the MSM, been tainted.  I
believe that Obama's personal beliefs are as far left as you can get
without becoming the Marxist Che Guevarra and inciting war.  His black
liberation theology and his connections with the those who were active
in the Black Panther organization and other radical groups have led me
to believe that even if he, personally, would never go "that far", he
has been exposed and indoctrinated in such by numerous people in his
life.  Now, I tend to see that as more of a negative than a positive,
but obviously, others disagree.  HOWEVER, since the election, he seems,
to my great relief, and conversely, to the dismay of the very liberal
left, he has moderated his actions and choices and words.  He is taking
away much of my fear factor, and I don't think I am alone.  I like the
team of rivals idea...it is what I have here on this list even...people
who differ from you in opinion, but whom you respect for getting where
they are in life and being confident in who they are.  It provides what
we all need to evolve into higher thinking, and that is the balance of
ideas.  However, you conservatives out there shouldn't go thinking I
have succumbed to the Obama virus; I have not.  I have simply moderated
my beliefs.  Like Lynn said, he is just same ol' same ol'-politics as
usual, and while I agree with Lynn' sentiment on this, I know that you
don't...Obama, for you Gene, is the name of the Revolution.
I hope time proves you right, but it is looking like we both might be
wrong about this guy.
Respectfully,
Bev


--
The true significance of Sacajawea's involvement in the Lewis & Clark
expedition is that it was the first documented trip in history where men
asked a woman for directions and followed them, allowing them to arrive
at their destination.