Homestead mailing list

[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

Lynda wrote:  "Just how long do you figure the Saudis and other countries are 
going to ship 
oil when the payments are in $$ made from the Emporer's Clothes?"


No much longer.  They have already made other exchanges to accept other 
currencies, and Putin has gone to the oil producer nations to get them to 
start by-passing the exchanges and return to direct sales to buyers - i.e. 
like it was pre-70's
 
 

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net> wrote:


 



>From Clansgian AT wmconnect.com  Tue Dec  9 10:15:41 2008
Return-Path: <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com>
X-Original-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 016C84C023; Tue,  9 Dec 2008 10:15:40 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, 
MIME_QP_LONG_LINE
        autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F4B4C022
        for <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue,  9 Dec 2008 10:15:39 -0500 
(EST)
Received: from Clansgian AT wmconnect.com
        by imo-m21.mx.aol.com  (mail_out_v39.1.) id 3.d68.363750ae (65098)
        for <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:15:29 -0500 
(EST)
From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com
Message-ID: <d68.363750ae.366fe591 AT wmconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:15:29 EST
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: 6.0 for Windows XP sub 11501
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld  -- feel free to ignore
X-BeenThere: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
List-Id: <homestead.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead>
List-Post: <mailto:homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/homestead>,
        <mailto:homestead-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:15:41 -0000


> You are saying you are 'not' the past though you use the tools and methods
of the ones who are past.  You say you foreshadow the future 'as' you use the
methods and tools of the past. ???


The tools and methods I use are the methods of the future.  As man an Amish
farmer will tell you, a horse is already more profitable than a tractor if 
used
in the right set up.  What you consider to be the omnipresent present is only
a small blip on the radar that has existed only during the lifetime of some
of the more geezerly members of the list.  It scarcely goes back beyond my
lifetime.  I know people like to view modern mechanized farming and 
manufacture to
be a firm knot tied in the rope of humanity's time line and that we cannot
slip "back" beyond it.  But it is proving to be a loose knot indeed and
unsustainable.


>
> >*****  But ; in method and lifestyle, you did go back, James.  That is part
> of your success and mystique.  You have separated much in the ways of
> Susan's "plain" people, by going back.  How do you say "There is no going 
> back" ?
> You went back ?
> >
>

No, Bob, I went forward.  I am where every independent person will be in a
few years.  I am ahead of my time.  Bob, do you know what you'd be eating if 
you
were given a 'mango' in the late 50's.  It was the word used to refer to a
bell pepper.  People hadn't seen them before and somehow that name stuck to 
them
for a number of years.  Go back much in history and 60% of what you see on
this farm was unknown on rural farms around here, and in most of the country.
There was no native knowledge on how to grow broccoli or caulilflower.  My
grandmother did not know how to make tortillas, tofu, tempeh, or cheddar 
cheese.
My grandfather did not know how to prepare pyrethrin from chrysanthemums or
accelerate composting by regulating the moinsture.  My list could go on and 
on.

The definition of 'going back' seems to be acquiring strenght and endurance
(and health) through physical work rather than fossil fuel.  It seems to be
diversification and sychronisity on the farm rather than monocropping.  It 
seems
to be a cash economy rather than a direct use economy.  All ridiculous
definitions of "going back".

>
>
> >****** I don't understand what you are saying above.  Are you saying now
> that most people will live as they have in the past, just with fewer toys 
> and
> less comfort?
> >

Yes, the essence of their lives which are a lack of self-determination and
quiet desperation.

>  But, the truth is there are many impressive people.  Some have much in
what we call 'wealth'.  Does all of their property dissappear?  If so, why 
will
the properties of my rural brothers not also dissappear?

Many of those wealthy people saw half of their "wealth" evaporate within a
few weeks as the stock market fell.  How many small farmers do you know who 
saw
half of their pastures evaporate during that time, half of their trees or
livestock?  This is just the beginning and we are about to find out what 
really is
wealth and what isn't.

>****** Why are the people going into large institutionalized , bleak living
situations, but the large institutional Ag, Banks, etc, going to dissappear.
You are arguing for and against institutionalazation.

Here is probably where you fail to understand all this, Bob.  I'm not arguing
for or against anything any more than I'm arguing for or agaisnt winter or
summer or aging or putting on one's shoes.  I am only opining what will be.
Large institutions made it possible for us to framgment ourselves into very 
small
family units and have a sort of 'independence' after a fashion.  The demise
of those institutions removes the appearance of that independence.  What's
left?  The basics of life have to be institutionalized rather than 
individualized.