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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

Worldwide demand has been increasing, even though US demand is decreasing and 
will likely continue to decrease for the reasons you cite.
 
Sutained future decreased worldwide demand will depend on the length and 
depth of a depression and the ability of individual nations to recover.  Here 
in the US, the majority of citizens really don't have savings. It makes it 
hard to recover as a nation when savings wealth has been and is being 
destroyed.  Other nations in the rest of the world are not in the same 
predicament, and should come thru rough times stronger and in a position to 
bull ahead and continue consuming oil.  If so, oil prices rising again will 
just make it harder for US citizens to pay for it.   
 
 
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 12/9/08, william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 10:55 AM

Actually, I think it will be the other way around,  Because there will be so
little demand for oil and gasoline, there will be a surplus.  It will be 
cheap,
but as most people will have no money or other means to get it, there will be
plenty





>From bobford79 AT yahoo.com  Tue Dec  9 11:37:11 2008
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--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Clansgian AT wmconnect.com <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com>
>
> Many of those wealthy people saw half of their "wealth" evaporate within a 
> few weeks as the stock market fell.  How many small farmers do you know who 
> saw half of their pastures evaporate during that time, half of
their trees or livestock?  This is just the beginning and we are about to 
find out what really is wealth and what isn't.



***** I don't consider that I have ever been wealthy, but I have seen the 
value of my assets decline by *more* than 50% in the past sevarl years, so I 
accept that point.  But, james most farmers and rural people have mortgages, 
loans, bills, etc. ; just like professional and businessmen in the city. Many 
farmers also have other non-farming jobs, and many of their spouses have jobs 
so as to pay their bills.

 So, say a businessman worth "2X" has lost 50% and is now only worth "X" in 
today's currency.  As long as he can still buy a farm for 20% of "X", from 
the heavily indebted farmer (look at the RE ads, many , many farms for sale), 
why is he not still ahead of the game. ?  I'm not saying it is fair, it isn't 
fair; but I think it is reality.

Now, what I 'have' been trying to decipher is a way to value my life, my 
assets, my 'worth' in something other than US Dollars (or other fiat 
currencies).  If I haven't mis-read you over time, I think that is part of 
your program , also.  And, I think you would be surprised at how similar you 
are to 'goldniks', as you call them, in that respect (only).

If I take the current measured material worth of my life and put it up for 
trade, what can I receive in return, leaving out, completely, currency 
measurement.  If I trade this shelter for a shelter with a hovel, barn, 
garden , tractor, and fencing; Is it a 'good' trade for me, regardless of 
what the currency appraisers (banks and realtors) say?  If I trade my health 
insurance for a healthier life; is that a good trade?  If I trade the 
regulations and zoning of the city for the gossip and nosiness of the hamlet, 
is that a good trade?

Those are the new type questions I am asking myself, that have nothing to do 
with USD.  I know I'm going rural, and soon.  But, "location" or "direction" 
will be influenced by questions like those., and others.



>
> Here is probably where you fail to understand all this,Bob.  I'm not 
> arguing for or against anything any more than I'm arguing for or agaisnt 
> winter or summer or aging or putting on one's shoes.  I am only opining 
> what will be.
Large institutions made it possible for us to framgment ourselves into very 
small family units and have a sort of 'independence'after a fashion.  The 
demise of those institutions removes the appearance of that independence.  
What's left?  The basics of life have to be institutionalized rather than 
individualized.

***** You missed my point.  Say what you project becomes reality.  Now that 
people are 'more' institutionalized, will not the ag, commodity and other 
businesses also need to be large and institutionalized to provide the people 
services, however bleak?
> _______________________________________________