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  • From: George Anna Clark <esac@laneta.apc.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] urine
  • Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 17:42:03 -0600

It isn't necessary to dilute pee at all if applied to the soil. The Nitrogen in pee (I forget what the chemical composition is, something like ammoniaco to nitrate to nitrite?) will burn the plant if you apply TOO MUCH. The key is the dosis. When applying too much, you can add water to flush the urine away from the root zone, but what you're doing is just wasting the pee. And in the case of macroapplications (think tanks of urine -both human and livestock pee- shipped to farms and applied with injectors- as the Swedes do) flushing would mean flushing the urine to places where it would do harm-- water bodies, aquifers, etc.

I use undiluted urine for orange and papaya trees (mature, flowering papayos: 3.5 liters once a month), corn and tomato/chile/green pepper plants. And also lots of organic matter of various types. Absolutely no burning. I probably should apply more. Usually applied with a watering can (multiply 3.5 liters by 60 to 100 papayos or 350 orange trees and you can see why I don't want to dilute), have also injected it through drip irrigation equipment with mixed results.

If the plants need water as well as fertilizer, by all means mix them together. If you have plenty of humidity through rain or irrigation, it isn't necessary. Apply early or late in the day, or on a cloudy day, preferably opening a ditch or hole with a hoe or whatever and then covering after applying. If you smell ammonia (which of course you will) that means that it is evaporating into the atmosphere. But a bit evaporating while farming is of course better than letting it all evaporate through a "sanitation" system.

Much more information at www.ecosan.org

Ah, one time I DID dilute was while fertilizing broadcasted sorghum, because most of it would be in contact with the leaf before dripping to the ground. I think I diluted it something like 1 to 7, but have heard even 1:20. (try it on just a plant or two before burning the whole garden. Surely some plants are more sensitive than others).

And, although I think it's true that urine at some point is sterile, it won't be once it gets out of the body if you have a urinary tract infection , not that means you can't use it. (sorry if that sounds like I'm splitting hairs, if that's the correct metaphor, but I don't mean to!) And if you use a urine-diverting toilet, as I do, you can have problems of cross-contamination when you least want it-- when you have an intense case of diarrhea. Again, not a reason to not use it, but to use common sense if you're marketing lettuces, for example.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I learn so much from this list.
George Anna Clark West
Tehuixtla, Morelos Mexico

El 3/9/2013 3:53 AM, Koreen Brennan escribió:
I use 10 to 1 water to pee. 9 to 1 is minimum dilution recommendation. And
I've made repeated daily applications in some cases with great results. I go
by observation - does that plant look a little peaked? Pee is sterile, by
the way. I use it on greens, and wash them before I eat them (which I would
do anyway). I'm still here! :-))

I've revived plants from the dead with pee - have a tomato plant that is
going on two years old still going strong and producing, in a pot. It was
almost gone when I started application because it had been hidden under
another plant, and it bushed out aggressively and started fruiting. One of my
moringas was looking sickly, I used pee and it's thriving - deep green
leaves, healthy stems, grew four feet over winter season, and flowering. I
just put a few applications on when it first went in the ground (which perked
it right up), and donut mulched with manure and seaweed. Pee is a daily
application (only because I pee every day) unlike aged manure. I like it
because it gives me an excuse to go out and spend time checking everything
out in the garden. I have a new sheet mulch system that is a little heavy on
the wood chips (it's what I had available to me), so the plants really
appreciate that bioavailable nutrition. I innoculate my compost pile with it
too, the garden doesn't need it every day, but you just gave me the idea of
trying daily application on a small area to see what happens.

On the rock dust, I noticed the improved taste the first season. That was
finely powdered rock dust. The jury is still out on the course grain variety.
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
From: tanya <tanyagarden@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Rock Dust
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's a lot of phosphate in pee. And in this town, we either ship our pee
(well, not MY pee :-) out of town on trucks (!) or inject it a couple
thousand feet under the earth. Jeez. And then we strip mine and bring in
rock from our WATERSHED. How stupid is that???!!!!!

How much do you use? And at what dilution?

In the past I've used some at a community garden plot, but I used it
sparingly -- 1:5 dilution at least -- and ended up putting most of it
in the compost.

I've been wondering about using it on some container plants. Maybe
1:10? No more than once a month?

This time of year, most of the produce I'm picking is leafy greens, so
I don't want to use it directly on the garden. Mache, arugula, various
kales.
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