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["Thomas C. Meggs" <tom AT plik.net>]

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Diane M. Kurilecz wrote:

| Thomas C. Meggs wrote:
|
| >Well, that is one issue, but the real problem is running buses with
| >street traffic. Or trains for that matter. It's just
| >horrible. There is
| >no way to accurately predict train times. Public transit has to be a
| >closed system in order to run efficiently.
|
|
| Huh?  I've never seen these problems.  The real problem is a Catch-22 of
| users/bandwidth.


Yes, I agree that the biggest problem is probably caused by
loading/unloading time of buses and trains. What I was speaking of was
from personal experience dealing with a light rail system that mixed
with street traffic, but also had a good part of its system on closed
lines. Some of the worst delays happened from accidents or unusual
congestion on the streets which then in turn backed up the schedule of
the trains that were entirely on closed track, since the trains couldn't
leave the station yet.

| In Westchester County, NY (which includes Yonkers), the DC suburbs,
| the Boston suburbs, the Toronto suburbs, and other places, they manage
| to run plenty of buses (and electric buses, and streetcars) on regular
| roads.  The trains run every five to twenty minutes, depending on time
| of day.  There is a mix of express and local buses and trains.  The
| Westchester County system is recognized as one of the best in the
| nation -- usually on-time (I could set my watch by some drivers!),
| very frequent, complete route information available at most stops and
| on the bus.  I didn't have a driver's license until I was 27.  My
| father never drove.

Well I think thats part of it - in those areas I bet there is less
congestion because fewer people drive. Some areas have a culture that
promotes public transit, but many don't. Especially many areas in the
south. Another thing is that most of my public transit experience is in
heavily urban areas, so that's probably more the viewpoint I'm coming from.

| The key is to have bus routes run on major roads and intersect each
| other at major intersections.  The crazy routes they have around here
| are clearly (as someone stated) based on school bus routes.  Busses

That's nuts, I didn't realize that.

| have to run a maximum frequency of ten-minute intervals rush-hour and
| 30-minute intervals non-rush.  They must start by 6am and continue
| until 10pm.  Running later will encourage people to use mass transit
| for bar hopping.  The routes also work best when they use a grid

I really wish there was more public transit from bar to home. ;)

| pattern rather than a spoke-pattern; the only problem in suburban DC
| was that the system expected people to live in the suburbs and work in
| the city.

Right, I totally agree. Same thing with BART in the Bay Area, all it
does is promote sprawl growth. They expand it along major highways, so
people live 30 minutes out from the BART station instead of 30 minutes
away from work. But its hard to argue building things in more of a grid,
~ because it's more expensive and won't immediately serve people, even if
it's a better layout. So we build trains to go along highest points of
population density, and the problem becomes compounded.

| Another local problem is these large business campuses, where it would
| be quite a hike to get to the building from the bus stop.

Yeah, and they are often excessively spread out complete with huge
parking lots. ;)

I work in Morrisville, and there is a bike rack next to my building. It
almost ammuses me because (1) I've never seen a single person use it and
(2) I imagine that it's a pain in the ass to bike from anywhere to
Morrisville. If only there was more infrastructure to make biking around
here a little safer.

Regards,
Tom

- --
$Id: .sig,v 1.18 2002/10/12 20:27:23 tom Exp $

pub  1024D/87F1C20F 2001-11-15 Thomas C. Meggs <tom AT plik.net>
Key fingerprint = 5E9A D535 B9DA A889 984B  9654 2025 409B 87F1 C20F
http://plik.net/tom/publickey.php

"Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not
dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry."
~        -- Sir Winston Churchill
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