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Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was: It's almost over)

From: "Lynda" <lurine AT softcom.net>
To: <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>, <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was: It's almost over)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:37:21 -0800

Bob, do you really expect the white guys who were responsible to accept the real numbers. Each and every report says they only checked with 4 of the 12 health services. They only came up with a small number. Gee, why am I surprised.

And, no, I don't know that alcohol effects birthrates in this instance because I have yet to see alcohol do a hysterectomy or a visectomy. If you can find me any data where that happens, I'd be more than willing to apologize and accept that I might be wrong.

Now, for someone who doesn't trust the government at all. Someone who is usually quite happy, even eager, to jump on the conspiracy bandwagons for a whole raft of things, why is it that you are now a card carrying government supporter?

Do you honestly think the government is going to release the real numbers?

I'll admit that the Indian is generally the Indian's worst enemy. There is a whole culture of don't complain and accept with silence. Complaining is seen as whining. There is no way you'll ever see a Jesse Jackson Jr. or Sharpton from any rez. Even the protests in Washington and Sac were done rather quietly and with dignity.

The IHS has systematically destroyed as many records as possible. Most tubal ligations were listed as DNCs. Hysterectomies were frequently listed as appendectomies.
I worked on some of this. Believe me, the 40% (female) and 10% (male) are probably low! The only way to get true numbers would be to find each and every female who was seen at any of the IHS and IHS satellite offices for a 20 year period. Records have conveniently disappeared "oh, they are in storage." "Oh, sorry, the roof leaked and they were destroyed." "Oh, we changed systems and I can't find the records that belong with the old numbering system." "Oh, we only keep records until they they are 3 years past 21."

Please do tell why you would have a need to do a hysterectomy on a TWELVE YEAR OLD!

Most of these women were scared spitless of reprisals by the government and wouldn't come forward. Many had been threatened with having their children removed from their homes. Many had their children taken away from them. It was routine for them to be threatened (Head Start, CPS, p.s.) and to then have no recourse. You seem to forget that until the 1930s, an Indian had no rights in court. The government could and did do whatever they pleased. Everyone knew what the government had done to the Osage. No one else wanted a government conservator who was just as likely to murder you as they were to be an actual conservator.

Your government has a LONG history of eugenics against the People!

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- From: "bob ford" <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>

I just read the first two paragraphs and will read the rest later. So far, it says some Indians have accused the gov't of sterilizing up to 25% (which I still find unbelieveable). I'l finish later but think you might be exaggerating. You know as well as I do, that alcohol has something to do with the birthrate. It might not be politically correct to say, but alcohol affects Indians differently than others. I will read further.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net> wrote:

From: Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was: It's almost over)
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:47 PM
Ah, Bob. I would suggest you do some reading about history.
The government
instituted a program in the 60s and 70s inwhich they
sterilized over 40% of
the Indians who were of child bearing age.

Wouldn't think of giving you any newspaper article but
I would refer you to
Congressional records! The GAO report. The American
Indian Policy Review
Commission's Report on Indian Health. Public Health
Aspects of
Contraceptive Serilization. American Indian Women and IHS
Sterlization
Practices. Killing Our Future: Sterlization and
Experiments. And Then
There Were None: Is Federal Policy Endangering the
American Indian Species.
Also, numerous articles in well respected journals such as
the American
Journal of Public Health and even the U.S. Dept. of HEW has
many reports on
this.

Here's one article just to get you started
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/american_indian_quarterly/v024/24.3lawrence.html

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- From: "bob ford" <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
To: "Lynda" <lurine AT softcom.net>;
<homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was: It's
almost over)

> Now, I have completely agreed with your greviances, as
an Indian, and said
> that the gov't is required to make things right ,
because of the
> Constitution. Why do you have to throw in something
like sterilizing 40%
> of the modern Indians, That has not happened.
>
> The gov't did have a hand in killing off many
(most) Indians, and
> stealing your land through broken treaties. But,
I'm going to need more
> than a left-wing newspaper article to believe that we
(the gov't)
> sterilized 40% of the few of you that were left. If
they did that
> successfully, why did they not do it to
"blacks" when they were in the
> unfavorable column? It wasn't
possible.............
>
> p.s. My cherokee friend was not at boarding school.
His father was a cop.
> My friend played all sports, was in the normal clubs,
did all of the
> normal stuff. He was proud of his Cherokee heritage,
but he was just one
> of the guys. Maybe, today, he looks at it
differently, I don't know.
> 'haven't talked to him in
decades.....................................
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
wrote:
>
>> From: Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was:
It's almost over)
>> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com,
homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:21 PM
>> We have never been of the whine and snivel type
<g>
>> We've begun using the courts, the Constitution
AND the
>> UN.
>>
>> And, yup, I'll bet your friend did consider
himself
>> "white" because that was a way to
survive. AND,
>> also a wanted result from the boarding schools.
>>
>> The boarding schools didn't take with us so
well. In
>> fact, just made most of my aunts and uncles and
cousins,
>> etc. more anti-white, anti-christian. Of course,
part of it
>> might have to do with those nice christian folks
killing my
>> uncle.
>>
>> Nope, we aren't multiplying like other folks.
The
>> government went out of their way to be sure the
red folks
>> couldn't multiple. When you sterilize over
40% of any
>> given ethnic population you kind of put a crimp
in their
>> reproductive activies. Guess they were scared
that we
>> viewed them all as more potential Custards and
might invoke
>> more Ghost Dances <g>
>>
>> Lynda
>>
>> P.S. Don't anyone going assigning tone to
these
>> e-mails. I'm just sharing facts and writing
as I would
>> speak if we were all sitting around the woodstove
sharing
>> some pasta e figoli (made using my smoked turkey
broth) with
>> hot garlic bread (dinner tonight <g>)
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob
ford"
>> <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>> > The problem with what you wrote Lynda is that
there
>> are not enough of you left to get away with being
as
>> antagonistic as the "Black" or
"brown"
>> "folks" -- and , it is starting to wear
thin and
>> not work as well for them, also.
>> >
>> > Your people have not multiplied in sufficient
numbers
>> as did the black and brown people (I guess you are
old
>> school and consider your self "Red").
The good
>> full blood Cherokee friend I had growing up
considered
>> himself "white".
>> >
>> > The Treaties and the Constitution really is
your ace
>> in the hole
>> >
>
>
>

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Re: [Homestead] Who attacked whom? (was: It's almost over) , (continued)