permaculture

[venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

This is my last post on this topic for those interested, an effort to 
put things in historical perspective, provide a more complete picture 
with a lot of good research sent to me by a friend; his input is in 
quotes. See below all quoted text for the new material. - LL

<>

On 3/16/2013 5:26 PM, venaurafarm wrote:
> > > On 3/16/2013 12:44 PM, venaurafarm wrote:

> > On 3/15/2013 4:02 PM, John D'hondt wrote:
> > brand new pope became pope with his reccord of aiding and abedding dead
> > squads in Argentina.

> > > For a Catholic Jesuit priest this is unforgiveable, if actually true.

> > > > The Argentinian mothers of the disappeared seem to think so.

> > > > > They "disapeared" (there is a movie about this) all the hippies,
> > > > > lefties and alternative types then adopted their orphaned children.
> > > > > His latest statement is something about the Catholic Church needing to
> > > > > focus more on theological teachings
> > > > > if it wants to avoid being relegated to the pages of history as being
> > > > > simply another NGO in the service of humanity.
> > > > > If only they would do just that! He is a conservative Catholic who
> > > > > abhorred the Liberation Theology movement of decades past.

> > He labelled LT Marxist doctrine. It would be logical to assume that he
> > had the same opinion of the people in Argentina who were part of the
> > new cultural renaissance that happened, cultural, social, political.
> > It was primarily left leaning. As you might imagine many were probably
> > not so immersed in the political aspects, i.e. political reform, but
> > just wanted to get on with their lives while others may have
> > participated in more radical leftist campaigning, all enjoying and
> > benefiting from a refreshing, alternative, free thinking cultural
> > climate. There were educated, skilled professionals, artists,
> > architects, writers, poets, academics of all sorts, musicians, tradesmen
> > and many others involved in this movement. The military junta came to
> > power and committed genocide on these people. They were the Argentinian
> > counterparts to the same kinds of people creating a cultural renaissance
> > in the United States and Europe. Then, Kissinger and the CIA and other
> > collaborators did the same thing in Chile, overthrowing the leftist
> > Allende government and putting the despicable Pinochet in power; he
> > probably took his direction from Spain's Franco
> > who allowed the Nazis to use Spanish villages for target practice by the
> > Luftwaffe. Pinochet's thugs assassinated the popular musician Victor
> > Jara and probably the Poet Pablo Neruda as well (his body will soon be
> > exhumed for an autopsy to determine cause of death). I was 21 in 1960
> > and the Chinese invasion of Tibet had already happened; the full
> > meaning, if not even news of as well, along with that of the sad events
> > in Argentina, Brazil and Chile escaped my friends and I during the
> > period 1960-1980.

> More on this + recent news:

> 16 March 2013
> Pope Francis wants 'poor Church for the poor'
> "The Pope on why he chose the name Francis, and the kind of Church he
> wants to see Pope Francis has said he wants "a poor Church, for the
> poor" following his election as head of the world's 1.2bn Catholics on
> Wednesday. He said he chose the name Francis after 12-13th Century St
> Francis of Assisi, who represented "poverty and peace". He urged
> journalists to get to know the Church with its "virtues and sins" and to
> share its focus on "truth, goodness and beauty"."
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21812545
>
> <>
>
> Well, I guess they are safe now addressing the needs of the poor, now
> that the troublemakers are gone, at least in his home country and in
> Chile and Brazil, the intellectuals, the educated, the philosophers,
> the political activists, especially the left leaning ones, the social
> and economic reformers, those with education, the middle class in
> general, those who wear glasses..gone also in other places where
> genocide of this class of people occurred, Cambodia, Bangladesh,
> probably Ceylon, Burma, other locations possibly. They wouldn't want to
> help the middle class because they would feel that they would not be
> able to control them and thus control the elections and that these folks
> would never allow a fascist military junta to come to power. So, its
> safe now to help the poor, they are easy to control, are defenseless,
> malleable, disadvantaged and in some cases disenfranchised.
>
> Of course it would be wonderful beyond all imagining if the Catholic
> Church really did work to help the poor of the world. It would be nice
> if they also invited the permaculture and natural agriculture
> communities to help in this effort.

"The official Catholic Church has always stood behind the privileged 
class in Latin America. Or at least they have for the last several 
centuries.

Here's a story nobody knows. Up until something like 1773, when they 
were suppressed by the Church, the Jesuits were actually doing the Work 
of the Lord in Latin America. They went to places deep in the interior, 
now Paraguay, where they were the only Europeans there, and enlightened 
the locals, who were pretty much just primitive cannibals at the time. 
Taught them how to build ranches and churches, weave and wear clothing, 
grow crops, craft their own tools at foundry, and of course pray to the 
Lord. They were very popular.

Then after they were chased out of Catholic Europe, and Latin America as 
well, the slave traders came in their absence, burning the missions and 
murdering freely. It's a forgotten bit of history, but these guys were a 
bunch of outlaws, all Portugees and Turks and Genovese, soldiers of 
fortune with death as their trade. And they'd kill everyone they didn't 
want to rape or sell as a slave. Since then, Paraguay's been a real 
cultural backwater. Except, I think, for one church where they still 
teach the young people today to sing madrigals and other 18th century 
stuff. It's an outpost of baroque classical learning, a mission so far 
into the backlands that the Mamelucos (the local name for the slave 
traders) never got there. The friars still teach the Indian kids in 
Latin. It's a lost world.

Anyway, it's looking more and more like this Pope Francis is not one of 
the good Jesuits. The latest stories have him standing silent while two 
protesting priests were kidnapped and tortured by the regime. Not pretty.

Do you recall the name, Daniel Mitrione? This was back a few years 
before the Junta really came to power. Anyway, he was a St Louis cop who 
got a contract to teach the military police down in Uruguay what they 
call "advanced interrogation techniques". That is, torture. Because 
Uruguay had been having some trouble with the Tupamaros.

So after a while things got so bad there that the Tupamaros decided they 
had to fight back. They kidnapped Mitrione and tortured him to death. 
This was the first most Americans had ever heard of trouble down south, 
in the countries of the Southern cone.

See how close this account comes to mine, from memory:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmitrione.htm

The interesting thing was that this Marxist-based rebellion spread into 
Argentina, where the Argentine military defeated the rebels decisively. 
And it was only then, when there was no longer an armed resistance 
movement, that the Generals decided to take over the government and have 
a nationwide purge-- of all the liberals and intellectuals they'd hated 
and feared all along.

University people got the worst of it. In the minds of the Junta, it was 
those left-wing intellectuals who were responsible for the whole 
problem. So they picked up everyone who had ever spoken up for things 
like peace and justice. They all disappeared, one by one, after having 
been tortured to reveal the names of all their friends. Until finally an 
entire class of people had been cleansed from Argentina.

Later on, after the Falklands War swept them from power, the Generals 
went underground. And showed up again in odd places like El Salvador, on 
hire as advisers to other right-wing regimes. If you want to enter this 
whole ugly world, search for Operation Condor.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/03/07/cond-m07.html

This was a part of a worldwide fascist alliance started after the end of 
WW Two, in the Far East and in South America. Places like northern Burma 
and Taiwan became centers of right wing extremism, allied to our OSS, 
later the CIA. Fueled by opium money, the movement metastasized, turning 
into a worldwide organization of fascists. But there were always more of 
them in South America than anywhere else. In 1946 the Ratlines shipped 
them out of Italy and Marseilles from Allied prison camps. With the help 
of certain highly placed people in the Vatican. They landed in Buenos 
Aires and Sao Paulo, with new identities, and disappeared into the 
German colonies there.

Later, Israel and the old apartheid South Africa were also at the center 
of this evil business. In fact even in 2003, when we invaded Iraq, 
Israeli Shin Bet people (whether sent by Shin Bet or freelancing 
soldiers of fortune) were there in an advisory capacity. And what came 
of it? Abu Ghraib reopened, under American sponsorship, no longer 
Saddam's worst prison but our own worst prison. And we found that 
torture techniques developed by this web of fascists had been taught to 
the American soldiers staffing the prison. The soldiers said they had 
been taught how to treat the prisoners by mysterious people in authority 
who had no uniforms, no insignia and no name tags.

Here's some interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_conspiracy_theories