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  • From: LBUZZELL@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] WTF?
  • Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:09:03 EDT

Many thanks for this kind message, Dick. I agree that aggressive,
competitive conversation can be a turn-off for many, both male and female,
while
others experience it as free-wheeling "fun" -- usually until they are the
recipients of the dominating messages and put-downs.

Author Riane Eisler is one good guide to the whole concept of how to
replace dominator modes of being with "partnership" models. I think this is
actually what we're trying to do in permaculture, isn't it? -- stop
"dominating" the land and start working in harmony with the rest of nature.
It takes
a lot of "unlearning" for both men and women.

Others who are trying to teach all of us better communication include
Marshall Rosenberg (Non-Violent Communication*), Buddhists, Gandhians etc.

Linda

*From Wikipedia:

Nonviolent Communication (NVC) is a way of speaking that facilitates the
flow of communication needed to exchange information and resolve differences
peacefully. It helps us identify our shared needs, encourages us to use
language that increases goodwill, and avoid language that contributes to
resentment or lowers self-esteem.
Nonviolent Communication focuses our attention on compassion as our
motivation, rather than fear, guilt, blame, or shame. It emphasizes taking
personal responsibility for our choices and improving the quality of our
relationships as our goal.

In a message dated 8/20/2010 8:49:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
dickpiercedesigns@gmail.com writes:

Linda, thanks for stirring this pot, this way - I am a product of a "boy's
rules" culture, so much so that I do not think about it or realize it most
of the time - sorry to hear that this is another facet of being an ugly
American [male] but can see where it comes from and how it can be viewed
that way.

I find my self turning off more and more to the long, multi-author message
strings on this web site - some of the content is only marginally of
interest, but the tone of some and the knife-like swipes of many are
irritating and counter productive, in my opinion.

I have been involved in a couple of local conversations lately - from which
I have withdrawn with considerable upset - where it became clear that the
object was winning, or winning someone over to one's thinking/theory, and
the tactics included: put-downs, insults, slander, louder and louder
voices,
more and more attacking, etc. I use this as a close-to-home analogy for
some
of the stuff I'm half-way reading on this listserve.

Boys Rules or what ever it is may be OK in personal, in-person
conversation
between consenting adults/children - it's not, to me, in impersonal,
remote,
non-visible, non-consenting, don't-know-you-or-your-culture-very-well/at
all
mass communication. I like a Baha'i Faith saying that goes:"Let a kindly
tongue be the lodestone of your heart." Another, source unknown: "Is this
the best thing I can say/do in this situation, for the good/benefit of the
largest number?" I like the concept of communication and dialogue for this
listserve - far better than polarizing or winning a point or building a
following. That's my wish/opinion.

One question pops out at me - being a product of boy's/men's rules and
American society and business,................what are "girl's rules" or
"boy's/girl's" rules, and how does this play toward what I'd guess I'd like
called "[compassionate, caring, nice, kind, inclusive, polite,
constructive,
learning/teaching, _____ ] adult rules? I'm serious in asking - I'd like
very much to have such a list - perhaps I and others could merge/select
from
the two lists and be better people, communicators, and list-servers.

I hope that I'll become a better listener for the great info and talent and
knowledge and perspective of the many folks that tune in to and communicate
on this listserve

Dick Pierce - Martha's Vineyard, MA & Austin, TX

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:18 PM, <LBUZZELL@aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 8/19/2010 12:09:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> slowfoodguy@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Surely this artifact of paternal-lineaged, sky-god agriculture will pass
> just as fast as our use of oil;o)
>
> Thanks, slowfoodguy. Good food for thoughts...
>
> Linda
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
DickPierceDesigns@gmail.com
SE-NE (summer) & Austin, TX (winter)
cell-512-992-8858 (all-season)
www.DickPierceDesigns.com <http://www.dickpiercedesigns.com/>

Coming up soon: CitizenGardener.ning.com
<http://citizengardener.ning.com/>- Fall 2010 Classes
And, not far away: AustinPerm.com - PC Design Course

-Dick's PC-Bio. on www.austinperm.com/
-You Tube Dick Pierce for video clips
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