permaculture

[Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>]

Alright dang it. I have stayed out of this discussion because I don't like 
things that look to me like a pissturing contest. Whether or not I am right 
about that is immaterial, now I'm speaking up.

The problem as I see it is, Permaculture is in the position of having to use 
language which has no term for Permaculture, to describe itself. 


I personally think of Permaculture as a paradigm. An approach that 'works 
with 
the maximum humaneness and best possible win-win for all sides'.. Like the 
Eskimos who have 37 words for every known nuance of "snow", we are stuck with 
having to break new languaging ground here in order to spread this word, and 
this square peg isn't going to fit snugly into the present-day round hole we 
have. 


In order to spread this word, we have to be able to define it. Where better 
to 
work that out than here, among those who expend great effort to put it into 
practice?

There is a lot of emotion associated with the terms 'movement' and 
'political'. 
Check inside yourself and see if an emotion of some kind isn't invoked by 
reading those 2 words. Those evoked feelings constitute "baggage" that are an 
up-front impediment to our objective.

IMO "trend" or "growth" or maybe better yet, "evolution" might be better 
descriptives and, guess what, if we make it "fashionable", we will entrain a 
large part of humanity just as a matter of course. Then once people 
experience 
the benefits all 'round of this way of thinking, they will see to it that it 
stays in motion.

OK, if anyone slams me after this post, I probably won't read it.

Linda
another girl YEAH!  


-trimmed for brevity-
>From LBUZZELL@aol.com  Fri Aug 20 14:29:53 2010
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Thanks, Lee.  There has been quite a bit of research on "average"
differences in conversation styles in women and men (e.g.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Just_Don%27t_Understand_
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Just_Don't_Understand)  )  and while no one 
can predict how an individual woman or
man will speak or  respond, there is food for thought there.

I know that when I entered the work world way back when, I had to learn a
style of communication I hadn't previously been used to, not having grown up
 with brothers.  Sometimes it was exciting and fun; sometimes it was very
painful. Do you remember the book "Games Mother Never Taught You"?  When
women began to flood into the previously-male-only work world in the 1970s
(after the "Mad Men" era!) it was a popular guide to that mysterious and
often unfriendly-to-us realm.  Many women who were entering previously  closed
fields really needed the training!  We just didn't get the point of  the
"sporty" put downs and the hierarchical competition. But now lots of  women,
like you and (sometimes) me, are bilingual and bicultural :-)  And,  thank
goodness, so are many men.

Linda

I'm a woman (not obvious by my name, I realize) just FYI.  :D

I've worked in so called male-dominated fields my whole life, so I'm
pretty accustomed to what you're referring to as "boys' rules" of
discourse and engage in them myself at times.  I also frequently do  call
for more civility in discussions when I think that's appropriate (and
I'm not sure it's always men who get uncivil - I've seen some women who
really go off the rails in Internet discussions as well).  In other
words, I don't have a problem playing around with different styles of
discourse in different situations.  I try to understand what the other
person means when they write, rather than how they say it, and I
appreciate when others show me the same courtesy.  I also no doubt
misread people frequently, and feel that I am frequently misread.  The
thing that is most likely to make me angry is when people are either
being disingenuous, or obviously advocating something that I feel is
going to harm a lot of people.  In those cases, I don't apologize for
responding with anger.  Otherwise, I try not to and I appreciate when
people clarify something that I misunderstood, and I try to do the same
for them.  I also admit to losing patience sometimes when it seems
people are more interested in dragging out the clarifications than
getting to the point.

I know plenty of men who seem to follow this  same general approach so...
I'm not sure that so much of this is gender  based... I really have no idea.

On 8/17/2010 12:51 PM, LBUZZELL@aol.com  wrote:
> My concern about this conversational climate is about the people  it
> excludes. For example, how many other women are regular posters on  this
 list?

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