permaculture

[LBUZZELL@aol.com]

I gather from the lack of response to my post inquiring about adopting some 
 more universally acceptable methods of discourse on this list that there 
isn't  much interest in pursuing that.
 
In the spirit of the discourse that is actually going on, I'd like to join  
in.  "Boy's rules," right?  Competitive jabs just fine - especially if  we 
pat each other on the back and make up afterwards?  (In case you think  I'm 
making this up, there's good research on men's and women's different styles  
of communication - women on average tend to prefer the cooperative and  
consensual  -- not all women of course -- and perhaps women's average style  
isn't better, but it's definitely different).
 
But I can play the sporty guy game too.  Every woman who's successful  in 
business, professional life or academia in North America or Europe has had to 
 learn it -- and unfortunately way too few men have been interested in 
learning  the art of more consensual/non-competitive discourse.
 
So let me shoot from the hip here: tough guy, clever jabs are fun for many  
men and a few women but are frequently off-putting for those not raised to  
enjoy this kind of "violent" and attacking dialogue.  I'm Canadian,  and at 
least when I was growing up, Canadians (both male and female) thought  this 
kind of cowboy discourse was pretty crude and very American. But I admit  
it's sometimes more entertaining than traditional Canadian politeness.  Of  
course as Michael Moore has pointed out so cleverly, even though Canadians 
have  as many guns as Americans, they don't tend to shoot people.
 
My concern about this conversational climate is about the people it  
excludes. For example, how many other women are regular posters on this  
list?  
Come to that, I wonder how many women or minority folk are at  the "top 
table" 
in permaculture?  Thank god/goddess for Robyn Francis,  Penny 
Livingston-Stark, Starhawk and my other heroines, but still?  There  was 
recently a 
meeting of West Coast Women in Permaculture (which I  unfortunately missed) 
and I 
was curious why women were feeling the need to  separate themselves out 
from the rest of permaculture and what issues they might  want to explore?
 
I'm a long time poster on another list about green issues and, sadly, this  
competitive, jabbing style of discourse has effectively driven away most of 
the  women, who ended up forming their own list as a place where they could 
talk  their own language and discuss the topic at hand in a different 
manner.  It  would be very sad if this happened to permaculture as well, 
which is 
why I keep  wondering if we can adopt a more inclusive way of communicating 
with each other  as part of our People Care and Fair Share ethics.
 
And lest you think this is just a problem for women, there are men from  
other cultures who also find the competitive, put-down style of conversation  
unpleasant.  This is a big world, with many different cultures.   
Permaculture is so important for human survival; I believe that a more  
sensitive and 
neutral way of communicating with each other would benefit  permaculture -- 
and the many people around the world who need it -- in the long  run.
 
So now -- I'm open for returning jabs.
 
Linda
 
 
In a message dated 8/16/2010 9:42:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
venaurafarm@bellsouth.net writes:

On  8/16/2010 11:46 PM, rafter sass wrote:
> Lawrence, what in god's name  are you on about?
>
> Is it really so beyond the pale that I hold  a position that
> it's strategically not a good idea to do PDCs for  white power groups?
> Really?
>
> People have made good  arguments, some better than others, as to why
> it actually WOULD be ok.  I've read them with genuine interest.
> In contrast, you seem to be  outraged that I would even have the temerity 
to voice
> my position. You  may think I'm wrong, but you are writing like my 
position
> is not only  totally fucking bonkers, but that I'm literally trying to 
TAKE OVER  AND
> DESTROY Permaculture just by asserting this position.  Huh?

Sorry, Rafter. I was just blowing off steam and, I'll admit,  challenging 
you with some of my pet ideas. Don't be concerned about it.  You 
certainly don't need my acid-tongued sarcasm, eh :-) See it as  just
my usual kicking the tires way of list management. Its always a  learning 
process for me, just exactly what do I need to do to keep  this
forum a world class resource and as useful to people as it can  possibly 
be; tweak the dialog and stimulate the best from everyone, and  smoke the 
lurkers out of the woodworks. The answer to that is obvious, a  
hands-off, benevolent neglect approach. This has become a habit for me  
since 1992. But I have surely learned from this last debate and a few in  
recent past too. I'll take a new tack in the future
and use a better  choice of words. I just wasn't think things through 
completely enough. Its  also the times we are in and the political winds 
that blow into every  crevice of one's life; the rhetoric, the 
divisiveness, the ploys and  outright lies.

Onward, down our respective paths through the deep  permaculture  forest.


...:LL
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