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  • From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Anti-semitism was Re: The Fed
  • Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:00:37 -0500

You were the one who posted racist comments in this list. Don't try to segue into some kind of incoherent internet shouting match to distract attention from what you said. If you are so sick of racism, then stop posting blatant racist bigotry in this listserv.

Bob Waldrop, OKC

----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Naylor" <martinwnaylor@yahoo.com.au>
AND I AM GOD DAMN SICK OF ANY RACIEST COMMENT - THE YANKS INVENTED RACISM TO GIVE THEMSELVES A REASON TO IMPORT BLACK SLAVES END OF STORY

PERMACULTURE STARTS AND ENDS IN THE HOME NOT OUT SIDE

TELL ME EXACTLY ANY LIE THAT THIS WORLD IS NOT CONTROLLED BY POLITICS AND MONEY and who exactly are they I PERSONALLY DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT CULTURE RELIGION CUNTRY THEY ARE FROM

FORGET THE THEORY THAT GOVT ADMINISTER LAW AND MONEY IS A MEANS OF EXCHANGE

IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER BE PREPARED TO DIE A DEATH OF THE WORLD AS IT USED TO BE

What do you or anybody not understand about permaculture any god damn single thing if you can find anything give me you're complete data base of your researches on the web or in the hidden web
LOVE

Martin

Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net> wrote:
I've read this email several times, and I can't
get past the blatant anti-semitism of the first
paragraph. I am sad that you think so little of
this group and the people who read it to make such
a racist comment in the context of a permaculture
discussion. Racist bigotry has nothing to do with
permaculture, if you think that it does, you know
nothing of permaculture. Your loose talk
depersonalizes human beings based on race and
ethnicity for political motives, and that is the
first step towards genocide.

Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City



----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Naylor"
To: "permaculture"


Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Fed


who was that clown Woodrow Wilson[and what did
he say-i have just done the biggest mistake in
history by giving the fucking clowns control of
the financial assets of the world to the fucking
Jews,just after they sent senator F. H. King on
a journey around the world to report on stuff
[ Farmers of 40 centuries- although i drought
that,and he reported back farmers of forty
centuries ] that if you get into oil deserts
will increase and depletion of soil will result

The reason PERMACULTURE IS NOT WIDE SPREAD IS
BECAUSE MR BILL MOLLISON DECLARED WE WILL NOT
BE SCUMMED BY THE AUTHORITIES -LIKE IT OR NOT -

Paul Cereghino

wrote:
"why is it that permaculture [as an example of
decentralized ecological
design] has such a small cult following in the
US rather than having
broad attention and appeal?".

I suspect because the educational system, does
not support it

I learned about permaculture by going to
college, and though the college
didn't teach permaculture, it did teach a range
of skills that I have
retrofitted, and it gave me resources with which
to make choices about
how I apply my life energy to affect the fabric
of human ecologies.
There is a little of the chicken or the egg
here, in that you need
people who think ecological design to teach
ecological design... I
wonder if integration into primary and secondary
education would be more
powerful? Over the last 20 years there are
increasing academic programs
teaching 'holistic' stuff, and this is because
they are competing for
students who demand 'holistic' stuff. The
populice and the dominant
economic model doesn't support it, and the
educational system is just a
service provider.

I want to redirect the character of this
analysis -- this idea that Pc
doesn't thrive because of 'them' or 'the
system'. That is just the easy
way out. If we are such good designers, then
lets design! The problem
is the solution, right... so show me! Least
action greatest response?
Show me! Why is it when we come to human systems
we throw up our hands
and say 'the system' is flawed? Perhaps we are
just ignorant of the
actual design context?!

there are not vast economic dependancies
associated with it, in the
minds of policy makers
material returns of investors, rather than
address the investments of
the natural world
you might find yourself working as a carpenter.

I think these combine -- Pc doesnt produce
revenue that can be
concentrated to produce a lobbying force or a
political caucus.
Pc offers guilt free subsistance but the
potential for emotionally
stressful isolation. It is land dependant, but
land ownership is
concentrated, and it is difficult to own land
outside the
investment-mortgage system without fleeing
population centers -- so
again, isolation. Then there is also increasing
insecurity in becoming old.

The uncertainties of business are being
minimized by causing the
customers to behave in a way to allow for a
significant return beyond
expenditures.

The horrific irony is that 'causing the
customers to behave' part is
very penetrating and pervasive. It is a economic
landscape phenomena
that must be overcome. The Pc idea is that you
invest the surplus in
the land -- not give it to a shareholder. So you
limit you
'constituency'. Pc has a very limited
'constituency'. Economic
interest groups use their surplus to influence
the economic landscape
for the benefit of their industry. Pc is busy
working on soil fertility
on land they have barely secured, while the rest
of the world is
creating the cultural infrastructure in support
of their revenue
streams. The Pc answer is that the rest of the
word will fall apart and
settle into Pc and so we focus on soil rather
then 'the system' or 'the
man'. Is that a safe or accurate assumption?

I think land ownership is central to this
thread. If I owned land
outright, I would have more options, but I trade
work for land over a
lifetime, and to squirrel away capital for
future security. Although I
deviate from norms quite substantially, some of
my behaviors are quite
normal, because they are driven by economic
insecurity context.

If your not perceived by those pulling the
strings in society as
acceptable your going to be swimming up stream a
lot.

But only when you are dependant on string
pulling, i.e. you are not
generating your own revenue, not generating your
own power, rather you
are trying to appeal to a non-functioning
populist ideal and you go
appealing to the string-pullers and find that
they have no interest or
use for you. If you want to redirect the stream
you learn the stream
dynamics and start looking for weakness in the
bank where you can cause
an avulsion.

Permaculture is a frontier and that is why you
don't find lots of
people out there. It is not what
has been going on the last 10,000 in
agriculture.

Perhaps I am an unforgiving perfectionist, but I
am not convinced that
our designs are so spankin' special at this
point.

Paul Cereghino



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To live outside the law you must be honest- Mr Robert Dylan

BEWARE OF TRASH:

One particular four-year old prayed, "And forgive us our 'trash baskets' as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets."
Unkown




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