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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Four Degrees of Devastation

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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Four Degrees of Devastation
  • Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:26:51 +0100


That is one of the things that worry me Paul. There should be a measurable and fast rise in sea level but I have seen whole documentaries explaining/proving that exactly the opposite is happening. I wish I were certain myself but confusion rules.
john


OK with me, I'm just judging from the amount of sea ice melting.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 6/8/2011 at 10:14 PM John D'hondt wrote:

Just replying to the last paragraph Paul. There is a hell of a lot of
confusion at the moment. It is not easy to see whether sea levels rise or
fall when the tidal differences are huge in comparison. I have seen
scientific articles going in either direction and the last one from only a
few weeks ago measured sea levels with gps and satellites and found a
drop.
Time will tell if we are still around.
john

to the question "why panic if we should move towards the same levels of
green
house gas as in the Carboniferous?"

it would destroy civilization and most species adapted to modern climate
including humans of course

sea water is rising slowly, and if the sun was hotter some scientists
somewhere would be telling us and others would be verifying it

paul tradingpost@lobo.net


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 6/7/2011 at 7:42 PM John D'hondt wrote:


The models are based on human emissions alone, and do not include
heat-amplifying feedbacks from melting ice or changes in carbon sinks.
When those are factored in, it moves the timetable forward so that
"reaching four degrees by 2060 is a plausible, worst-case scenario"
with
the median being 2070. By 2100, 5.5 degrees is possible, he said.
If it only includes human emissions and doesn't consider melting
hydrates, permafrost decay, or feedbacks, then it isn't even close to
the worst case scenario.

Everyone is so afraid to speak the whole truth on this topic because
the
whole truth is worse than the "alarmists".

Dan C.

I could not agree more Dan. Imo most people, even scientists, might not
be
able to take the whole truth. Our species is very good at extremely over
simplified dichotomies. Most are by now convinced climate change is
taking
place. Ice is melting everywhere. But is that our fault? Or is the sun
indeed putting out more enery?
Worst case scenario is if both are right at the same time. There were
times
on earth that CO2 levels were higher than they are now and life was
abundant. So why panic if we should move towards the same levels of green
house gas as in the Carboniferous?
If at the same time the sun puts out more energy we may very well all get
fried is why.

So many factors are still uncertain, ice is melting and sea water levels
should be rising. Instead we seem to have had a sea level drop of 10 mm
in
just a few years according to some research and this scares me seriously.
If that research is correct then where did all that water (many, many
cubic
miles of water) go?

It is almost a certainty that if both humans and the sun are responsible
that we may loose all water on Earth eventually. Just maybe this is what
is
happening already. And maybe this is the reason that serious people have
the
luxury to still be discussing temperature rises in single digits. Water
escaping the atmosphere would have a serious cooling effect for a while.
Nothing new here, at the very moment the Turks attacking Byzantium were
breaking down the gates of that city the theologians inside where
discussing
with vigour the question of how many angels could dance at the one time
on
the point of a needle.

In a real worst case scenario we may be getting temperature rises of a
few
hundred degrees.

John



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