Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>]

True some sea ice melt would just replace the water it displaced, some not. 
My interest is lower lying agricultural areas that could go saline on a 
massive scale. They say that some coastal cities already have too much 
freshwater drawdown resulting in seawater seeping into the water supply. 
Populations can migrate to higher ground but growing land is limited. For me 
it seems to always come back down to growing the most healthy food in the 
available spaces. On a personal note we're now a full 6 mos with zero rain 
and smoky skies to the west from record forest fires on the AZ-NM state line. 
Definitely a strange weather year in these parts. We're good long as the well 
holds out. I'd love to have rainwater collection but to do that you have to 
have some rainwater.

paul tradingpost@lobo.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/8/2011 at 9:40 PM Pete Vukovich wrote:

>Mm. Sort of lost the thread here, sea ice melting wouldn't affect sea
>levels either way.
>Glacial ice would, and those are certainly retreating in all but a couple
>cases.
>
>
>Sort of wonder also how well these models take into account that melting
>ice itself may mitigate sea temperature , essentially masking an increase.
>Also wonder (and should find out) what a plot of sea temperature vs vapor
>pressure (or surface evaporation rate) looks like. That one I just don't
>know anything about.
>
>
>--pete
>
>
>--- On Wed, 6/8/11, Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
>
>From: Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
>Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Four Degrees of Devastation
>To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
>Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 7:54 PM
>
>
>OK with me, I'm just judging from the amount of sea ice melting.
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 6/8/2011 at 10:14 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>
>>Just replying to the last paragraph Paul. There is a hell of a lot of
>>confusion at the moment. It is not easy to see whether sea levels rise or
>>fall when the tidal differences are huge in comparison. I have seen
>>scientific articles going in either direction and the last one from only
>a
>>few weeks ago measured sea levels with gps and satellites and found a
>>drop.
>>Time will tell if we are still around.
>>john
>>>
>>> to the question "why panic if we should move towards the same levels of
>>> green
>>> house gas as in the Carboniferous?"
>>>
>>> it would destroy civilization and most species adapted to modern
>climate
>>> including humans of course
>>>
>>> sea water is rising slowly, and if the sun was hotter some scientists
>>> somewhere would be telling us and others would be verifying it
>>>
>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>
>>>
>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>
>>> On 6/7/2011 at 7:42 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The models are based on human emissions alone, and do not include
>>>>>> heat-amplifying feedbacks from melting ice or changes in carbon
>sinks.
>>>>>> When those are factored in, it moves the timetable forward so that
>>>>>> "reaching four degrees by 2060 is a plausible, worst-case scenario"
>>>>with
>>>>>> the median being 2070. By 2100, 5.5 degrees is possible, he said.
>>>>> If it only includes human emissions and doesn't consider melting
>>>>> hydrates, permafrost decay, or feedbacks, then it isn't even close to
>>>>> the worst case scenario.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone is so afraid to speak the whole truth on this topic because
>>the
>>>>> whole truth is worse than the "alarmists".
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan C.
>>>>
>>>>I could not agree more Dan. Imo most people, even scientists, might not
>>be
>>>>able to take the whole truth. Our species is very good at extremely over
>>>>simplified dichotomies. Most are by now convinced climate change is
>>taking
>>>>place. Ice is melting everywhere. But is that our fault? Or is the sun
>>>>indeed putting out more enery?
>>>>Worst case scenario is if both are right at the same time. There were
>>>>times
>>>>on earth that CO2 levels were higher than they are now and life was
>>>>abundant. So why panic if we should move towards the same levels of
>green
>>>>house gas as in the Carboniferous?
>>>>If at the same time the sun puts out more energy we may very well all
>get
>>>>fried is why.
>>>>
>>>>So many factors are still uncertain, ice is melting and sea water levels
>>>>should be rising. Instead we seem to have had a sea level drop of 10 mm
>>in
>>>>just a few years according to some research and this scares me
>seriously.
>>>>If that research is correct then where did all that water (many, many
>>>>cubic
>>>>miles of water) go?
>>>>
>>>>It is almost a certainty that if both humans and the sun are responsible
>>>>that we may loose all water on Earth eventually. Just maybe this is what
>>>>is
>>>>happening already. And maybe this is the reason that serious people have
>>>>the
>>>>luxury to still be discussing temperature rises in single digits. Water
>>>>escaping the atmosphere would have a serious cooling effect for a while.
>>>>Nothing new here, at the very moment the Turks attacking Byzantium were
>>>>breaking down the gates of that city the theologians inside where
>>>>discussing
>>>>with vigour the question of how many angels could dance at the one time
>>on
>>>>the point of a needle.
>>>>
>>>>In a real worst case scenario we may be getting temperature rises of a
>>few
>>>>hundred degrees.
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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