Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[Pete Vukovich <pvukovic1@yahoo.com>]

Mm. Sort of lost the thread here, sea ice melting wouldn't affect sea levels either way.
Glacial ice would, and those are certainly retreating in all but a couple cases.


Sort of wonder also how well these models take into account that melting ice itself may mitigate sea temperature , essentially masking an increase. Also wonder (and should find out) what a plot of sea temperature vs vapor pressure (or surface evaporation rate) looks like. That one I just don't know anything about.


--pete


--- On Wed, 6/8/11, Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:

From: Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Four Degrees of Devastation
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 7:54 PM

OK with me, I'm just judging from the amount of sea ice melting.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/8/2011 at 10:14 PM John D'hondt wrote:

>Just replying to the last paragraph Paul. There is a hell of a lot of
>confusion at the moment. It is not easy to see whether sea levels rise or
>fall when the tidal differences are huge in comparison. I have seen
>scientific articles going in either direction and the last one from only a
>few weeks ago measured sea levels with gps and satellites and found a
>drop.
>Time will tell if we are still around.
>john
>>
>> to the question "why panic if we should move towards the same levels of
>> green
>> house gas as in the Carboniferous?"
>>
>> it would destroy civilization and most species adapted to modern climate
>> including humans of course
>>
>> sea water is rising slowly, and if the sun was hotter some scientists
>> somewhere would be telling us and others would be verifying it
>>
>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/7/2011 at 7:42 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>> The models are based on human emissions alone, and do not include
>>>>> heat-amplifying feedbacks from melting ice or changes in carbon sinks.
>>>>> When those are factored in, it moves the timetable forward so that
>>>>> "reaching four degrees by 2060 is a plausible, worst-case scenario"
>>>with
>>>>> the median being 2070. By 2100, 5.5 degrees is possible, he said.
>>>> If it only includes human emissions and doesn't consider melting
>>>> hydrates, permafrost decay, or feedbacks, then it isn't even close to
>>>> the worst case scenario.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone is so afraid to speak the whole truth on this topic because
>the
>>>> whole truth is worse than the "alarmists".
>>>>
>>>> Dan C.
>>>
>>>I could not agree more Dan. Imo most people, even scientists, might not
>be
>>>able to take the whole truth. Our species is very good at extremely over
>>>simplified dichotomies. Most are by now convinced climate change is
>taking
>>>place. Ice is melting everywhere. But is that our fault? Or is the sun
>>>indeed putting out more enery?
>>>Worst case scenario is if both are right at the same time. There were
>>>times
>>>on earth that CO2 levels were higher than they are now and life was
>>>abundant. So why panic if we should move towards the same levels of green
>>>house gas as in the Carboniferous?
>>>If at the same time the sun puts out more energy we may very well all get
>>>fried is why.
>>>
>>>So many factors are still uncertain, ice is melting and sea water levels
>>>should be rising. Instead we seem to have had a sea level drop of 10 mm
>in
>>>just a few years according to some research and this scares me seriously.
>>>If that research is correct then where did all that water (many, many
>>>cubic
>>>miles of water) go?
>>>
>>>It is almost a certainty that if both humans and the sun are responsible
>>>that we may loose all water on Earth eventually. Just maybe this is what
>>>is
>>>happening already. And maybe this is the reason that serious people have
>>>the
>>>luxury to still be discussing temperature rises in single digits. Water
>>>escaping the atmosphere would have a serious cooling effect for a while.
>>>Nothing new here, at the very moment the Turks attacking Byzantium were
>>>breaking down the gates of that city the theologians inside where
>>>discussing
>>>with vigour the question of how many angels could dance at the one time
>on
>>>the point of a needle.
>>>
>>>In a real worst case scenario we may be getting temperature rises of a
>few
>>>hundred degrees.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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