Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[paul@oneseedling.com]

Well send me a link showing me where this is happening cause I have been 
going to see friends that live on Cape Cod for the last 40 years and they are 
living in their Great Grandfathers house on the shore and the boat rings sunk 
in stone are still in the same place sea level wise. 
Same deal on the West Coast. Slips built in early 20's still at the same 
height. 
So where is the evidence??
I believe what I can see. 
I have been to Greece at the site of the battle of Thermopylae and the ocean 
is a mile away and 50' lower. I have stood on poured concrete docks in Italy 
built by the Romans a quarter mile from the ocean and watched excavation of a 
complete ship at those docks. That is evidence. 
I believe that global warming can raise sea levels if enough ice pack like in 
Greenland melts. Hasn't happened yet.    

Paul the Skeptic

On Jun 11, 2011, at 10:44 PM, "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:

> 
> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q9
> states: 
>   "Global mean sea level has been rising at an average rate of 1.7 mm/year 
> (plus or minus 0.5mm) over the past 100 years, which is significantly 
> larger than the rate averaged over the last several thousand years."
> 
> Not speculative. And I seriously doubt Al Gore is dictating policy to 
> National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, National Climatic Data 
> Center. Same goes for all the other links. I welcome differences of views 
> but please research the subject and weigh the credibility of sources and 
> who's paying them to say what. I do not support the "look out the window 
> and see if the sea level is rising" approach to the science. 
> 
> And the U.S. Geological Survey at 
> http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/fs91_97.pdf
>   "The rate of global sealevel rise is expected to accelerate during the 
> next century as atmospheric temperatures continue to increase."
> 
> What's important in this IMHO is to use and study and challenge the science 
> instead of just dissing it with ideological blinders. I mean, we still see 
> some who demand we accept the sun goes around the earth because the Bible 
> says so. 
> 
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/10/2011 at 11:26 AM paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> 
>> The National Geographic link is mostly speculating what would happen
>> "if". There has been no rise of ocean 4-8in in the US. 
>> 
>> The second link is also speculating on effects of rising levels on
>> marshland in Louisana. The graph actually shows the swamp rose instead of
>> fell.
>> 
>> The third link is also speculating on what "if" however it is more fact
>> based showing a very slight rise in sea levels. However archeological
>> evidence at least in the Mediterranean shows a fall in sea levels at
>> around 50 ft from Greek Classical era. 
>> 
>> The fourth link is also speculative heavy on the what if with some nice
>> temperature charts thrown in. Gotta remember we have only been recording
>> accurate temperatures for around 200 years. 
>> 
>> Sorry, the last two links didn't work on my computer. 
>> 
>> So I still say that as far as I can see the ocean rise thing is mostly
>> speculative. I looked at so old pictures of Florence and compared them to
>> modern pictures and it was a mixed bad, some higher some lower which leads
>> me to believe that those are foundation problems. 
>> Indications are that places like Bangladesh are sinking but that is due to
>> subduction of their subcontinent. Some islands in the Indian Ocean and in
>> the Pacific have lost coastline but this appears to be related to natural
>> sinking of volcanic islands
>> 
>> Climate change is good business, just as Al Gore.   
>> 
>> Paul the Skeptic
>> 
>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 10:46 PM, "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> They can always pay some "expert" who isn't even a climate scientist to
>> lie like no tomorrow, and the moneybags come from the likes of Exxon-Mobil
>> and other big polluters who stand to lose money if climate science is
>> taken seriously. But these are credible websites:
>>> 
>>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html
>>> http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/factshts/fs91_97.pdf
>>> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#q9
>>> http://www.nature.nps.gov/geology/coastal/gw_slr.cfm
>>> 
>> http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/235402/global-warming/274850/Ice-melt-and-sea-level-rise
>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15774757
>>> 
>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>> 
>>> On 6/9/2011 at 8:35 PM paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I guess the only question is where is the sea rising. No evidence on
>>>> either coast of the US. Area around New Orleans is sinking but area
>> around
>>>> Corpus Christi the same. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Paul the Skeptic
>>>> 
>>>> On Jun 9, 2011, at 4:53 PM, "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Qui bono. I'd question the source of any such "documentaries".
>>>>> 
>>>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/9/2011 at 9:26 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is one of the things that worry me Paul. There should be a
>>>>>> measurable 
>>>>>> and fast rise in sea level but I have seen whole documentaries 
>>>>>> explaining/proving that exactly the opposite is happening. I wish I
>>>> were 
>>>>>> certain myself but confusion rules.
>>>>>> john
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OK with me, I'm just judging from the amount of sea ice melting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 6/8/2011 at 10:14 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just replying to the last paragraph Paul. There is a hell of a lot
>> of
>>>>>>>> confusion at the moment. It is not easy to see whether sea levels
>>>> rise or
>>>>>>>> fall when the tidal differences are huge in comparison. I have seen
>>>>>>>> scientific articles going in either direction and the last one from
>>>> only
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> few weeks ago measured sea levels with gps and satellites and found
>> a
>>>>>>>> drop.
>>>>>>>> Time will tell if we are still around.
>>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> to the question "why panic if we should move towards the same
>> levels
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> green
>>>>>>>>> house gas as in the Carboniferous?"
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> it would destroy civilization and most species adapted to modern
>>>>>> climate
>>>>>>>>> including humans of course
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> sea water is rising slowly, and if the sun was hotter some
>> scientists
>>>>>>>>> somewhere would be telling us and others would be verifying it
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2011 at 7:42 PM John D'hondt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The models are based on human emissions alone, and do not
>> include
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat-amplifying feedbacks from melting ice or changes in carbon 
>>>>>>>>>>>> sinks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> When those are factored in, it moves the timetable forward so
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> "reaching four degrees by 2060 is a plausible, worst-case
>>>> scenario"
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the median being 2070. By 2100, 5.5 degrees is possible, he
>> said.
>>>>>>>>>>> If it only includes human emissions and doesn't consider melting
>>>>>>>>>>> hydrates, permafrost decay, or feedbacks, then it isn't even
>> close
>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the worst case scenario.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone is so afraid to speak the whole truth on this topic
>>>> because
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> whole truth is worse than the "alarmists".
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dan C.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I could not agree more Dan. Imo most people, even scientists,
>> might
>>>> not
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> able to take the whole truth. Our species is very good at
>> extremely
>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> simplified dichotomies. Most are by now convinced climate change
>> is
>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>> place. Ice is melting everywhere. But is that our fault? Or is the
>>>> sun
>>>>>>>>>> indeed putting out more enery?
>>>>>>>>>> Worst case scenario is if both are right at the same time. There
>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>>> on earth that CO2 levels were higher than they are now and life
>> was
>>>>>>>>>> abundant. So why panic if we should move towards the same levels
>> of 
>>>>>>>>>> green
>>>>>>>>>> house gas as in the Carboniferous?
>>>>>>>>>> If at the same time the sun puts out more energy we may very well
>>>> all 
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> fried is why.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So many factors are still uncertain, ice is melting and sea water
>>>>>> levels
>>>>>>>>>> should be rising. Instead we seem to have had a sea level drop of
>>>> 10 mm
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> just a few years according to some research and this scares me 
>>>>>>>>>> seriously.
>>>>>>>>>> If that research is correct then where did all that water (many,
>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> cubic
>>>>>>>>>> miles of water) go?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> It is almost a certainty that if both humans and the sun are
>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>>>>>> that we may loose all water on Earth eventually. Just maybe this
>> is
>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> happening already. And maybe this is the reason that serious
>> people
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> luxury to still be discussing temperature rises in single digits.
>>>> Water
>>>>>>>>>> escaping the atmosphere would have a serious cooling effect for a
>>>>>> while.
>>>>>>>>>> Nothing new here, at the very moment the Turks attacking Byzantium
>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> breaking down the gates of that city the theologians inside where
>>>>>>>>>> discussing
>>>>>>>>>> with vigour the question of how many angels could dance at the one
>>>> time
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the point of a needle.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> In a real worst case scenario we may be getting temperature rises
>>>> of a
>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>> hundred degrees.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>> 
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