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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

<<<The often proffered notion that if you buy gold, you are locking in the 
value
of  your assets at some stable point as currencies fall is just not true, has 
not 
bee true these last few years.>>>  Agree as to "locked in".  All people do in 
purchasing gold (or any other bubbling asset) is to try to mitigate the loss 
purchasing power.   How much you wind up locking in depends on the buy point 
and the sell point.  There is no locked in value until the completion of the 
sell side.  Some are better at that than others.
 
 
 
 
I also received those solicitations for me to buy this or that real estate, 
and just as many from realtors wanting to list my real estate for sale.  
Realtors want commissions.  Some may have held property to own.  But not 
most.  Most just wanted the commission.
 
 
<<,But there are just as many people out there trying to SELL gold to the 
masses.  >>  If there is so much supply available, explain the 4-6 month 
delivery days now.  
 
<<<I take it more as a sign that  people can be suckered coming and going.>>> 
 
That is because most people do not recognize correct buy/sell points.  They 
buy after price has already made most of the move up.  They don't believe 
people who understand what to look for and are able to do a very decent job 
of calling out moves before hand - the masses only believe it after the fact. 
 They wait and wait and wait for proof, and when the proof is finally there, 
the masses pile in and the end is near.  The masses do the same on the flip 
side - they ignore those very same people who said something was going to go 
up in price when they start warning the reversals back down are imminent.  
Yes, there is a sucker born every day.
 
 
<<<<If I intended to trade the beans for something else that might be a loose 
comparison.  But I am not.  I store breans in order to eat them.  Good times,
bad times, money up, gold down, etc. no matter what,. I intend on eating 
those 
beans.  They are neither for sale or for trade.>>>>
 
I think you miss that I discuss ways of storing excess production, and that 
the excess can be stored in many forms.  People can store it in 5 years worth 
of dried beans, in cash, in extra land, in any form.  Some people who have a 
lot of extra production year after year choose gold, silver, etc.   Excess 
production at some point gets converted into those things that have intrinsic 
survival value.
 
You say you have raised 5x the amount of food needed, and a portion of that 
goes to feed animals for milk, meat, etc.  And that your excess stores would 
never be for sale.
 
Assume for a moment you had no fiat cash issued from any country and no gold 
or silver (or on the flip side that people would no longer accept the 
currency offered).  In the event that your cow died unexpectedly - do you 
really think that I believe that you would not take some of your excess 
production (stored in the form of 5x the amount of food needed) and trade it 
for another cow if you could find someone to trade with?    You are just 
choosing to store your excess in one form versus another.  I have no issue 
with that, and I most definitely do not argue with it.  
 
<<<<gold bubble.  If a bubble occurs and you are to retain or increase your 
assets 
by means of holding onto gold until the proper time, you must discern when to 
buy and when to sell the gold.  At some time you have to convert the gold 
back into cash or else see its "value" decrease.>>>>

 
We actually don't disagree, except for just choosing different words to say 
the same thing.  People are supposed to use their brains to determine if 
there is any specific reason for owning gold, and for reasons to sell gold.  
The same thing actually applies to fiat cash - you have to know when to save 
it, and when saving it is a bad investment as opposed to spending it.  You 
also have to use your brain to decide if there is a reason to leave "the city 
life" (meaning the way most people have lived in this country for decades) 
and make a change for the homesteading lifestyle with a near cashless goal.   
From what I can see, one motivation (not all, just one) in particular to 
choose leaving a "city life" would be when one perceives that money might not 
have the same value (regardless of form, i.e. paper fiat money or gold money) 
if one perceives shortages of supplies are on the horizon.  What good does it 
to have $1 Million in the bank - if there
 are no eggs to be purchased?  That's when having hens ans roosters are worth 
more than $1 Million.
 
Let's say your goal is to grow food.
A gamble is made when there is NO possibility of increasing the odds in your 
favor.
If you set out mindlessly to grow food without any concept of watering needs, 
nutritional needs, crop rotation, soil temperatures, food storage, etc, you 
would be gambling.  Mother nature would have the odds in her favor.  When you 
use your mind, you increase the odds of success in your favor.
 
It is no different with anything else. Let's presume you have about 5 years 
of food stored, as well as the knowledge to continue to produce food without 
assistance from outside sources.  And you continue to make whatever it is 
that you make and sell in exchange for fiat currency, and you are storing it 
in a large butter jar so to speak.
 
You are choosing to store that excess wealth in the form of a paper currency 
in the event you need to make an outside purchase.  You are taking the risk, 
the gamble, that the paper currency that stores your excess wealth will 
continue to hold in purchasing power, or that you will be able to continue 
the sales of whatever it is that you sell. 
 
Others might choose, after they have saved up the most important things (the 
things needed for survival) to store some in paper currency, and some in 
precious metal.  They are spreading out their risk for their excess 
savings... hedging one against the other.  You only hedge when the perceived 
risk becomes too great.
 
 
 
 
Funny you mention how in about 3 years we won't be able to recognize things.  
I tend to agree.  I think since about 2003-2004 4 I was thinking in terms of 
2013 that the changes in US would be either be significant or the masses 
would become more aware of the shift.
 
Interesting story about your grandparents and how they thought the worst was 
in 1931, and yet the worst lay ahead.  The stock market lost a lot more than 
40% in the Great Depression.  (381 to 41 was roughly a 90% loss)  
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia19201940.html
 
The governments for the past 30 years, IMO, has been doing everything they 
can to make sure that those owning gold can't profit from it - via artificial 
price manipulation.  Why do governments see gold as being such a threat?
 
 
<<<...a gold Double Eagle as a keepsake for the year gold was confiscated.  
I've 
got it now. >>>>>....   In 1933 it was worth $20,,,, and now worth a minimum 
of ~$7.5 million just a few years ago........
 
HMMMMM me thinks that coin stored a lot of fiat money value passed on from 
your grandfather's generation to the next generation(s) and increased 
significantly in value along the way.... of course most of that value is as a 
collectors item as opposed to spot gold price.   Still you could take that 
single worthless piece of gold and buy a lot of valuable beans.... 
I'd hide that from the government....
 
 

--- On Sun, 12/28/08, Clansgian AT wmconnect.com <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com> wrote:

 



>From cayadopi AT yahoo.com  Tue Dec 30 16:49:26 2008
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From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
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Interesting article ---- wonder if the Russian guy picked the 2010 time frame 
on a whim,,,, or if it ties into some of Putin's chess moves related to oil.  
'Twould be a real "coup" for Russia to get Alaska if rumors of the largest 
oil field (not yet tapped) up there are actually true.
 
 
 
I had enough of reality for a while, and watched a movie - Pearl Harbor.... 
and couldn't help but note in the movie the Japanese attacked the US because 
the US cut them off from oil supplies, and triggered that part of the war.
 
 


--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Gene GeRue <genegerue AT ruralize.com> wrote:

WSJ about a highly regarded Russian academic:

"Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic  
decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and  
the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early  
July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska  
reverting to Russian control."





>From cayadopi AT yahoo.com  Tue Dec 30 17:02:21 2008
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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Canned Meats
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Bev, there is a small avocado tree that can be grown in pots, and moved 
indoors during colder months.  If I recall right it is a Mexican variety, 
very small fruit, bears fruit most of the year.  If I come across the source 
again, will post.
 
L

--- On Mon, 12/29/08, EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net> wrote:

From: EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Canned Meats
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 1:37 PM


Clansgian AT wmconnect.com wrote:

>>> Ancho?
>>> Pasilla?
>>> Something else?
> Not ancho or pasilla, althought those would make a good sauce, they
don't 
> make the classic chili sauce one finds on tamales.  If you grow them, any
of 
> those giant chili peppers like the old Big Jim and such.  In most grocery
stores 
> they are called "Guajilla" peppers.  If there's a tienda
around, just ask for 
> the chilis that are 'para tamales'.

Bueno.


> 
>>> So you don't use the pepper at all?  It just flavors the
water?
> 
> Right, the dried pepper itself is not used, just the water you boil it in.
 
> 'Flavor' the water is misleading, though.  The inside of the
pepper 
> disintegrates and all you remove from the water is basically the outside
hull of the 
> pepper, which isn't much edible anyway.
> 
>>> I have become addicted to avocados.  I know they are loaded with
fat,
>> but I'm telling myself it is a good fat<g> 
> 
> 
> Don't underestimate that!  It is whole, unadulterated vegetable fat.  
I very 
> seriously doubt any active person ever got fat from eating avocados.

The only bad thing is that we can't grow them, so they must be 
purchased.  Is there a way to preserve them?  Can you mash the flesh, 
add lime juice and maybe freeze it?  How long will a avocado keep?  I 
wouldn't have a clue-since they are my chocolate-it never lasts more 
than two days in the fridge..:)

B
-- 
"The world is my country, all mankind are my
  brethren, and to do good is my religion."
  Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)
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>From cayadopi AT yahoo.com  Tue Dec 30 17:39:07 2008
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Norton didn't stop it either........... my computer totally crashed last week.
 
When I finally called Dell for help, they skipped the routine 300 question 
drive you nuts routine very quickly and skipped straight to re-format hard 
drive.......... something was definitely going 'round.  Although they stated 
something about a Win update.........
 
 


--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Sage Austin | Eureka! Design <eureka AT hctc.net> wrote:

From: Sage Austin | Eureka! Design <eureka AT hctc.net>
Subject: [Homestead] Anti-virus software
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Monday, December 29, 2008, 9:58 PM

Just wanted to say my computer has been in the shop for two weeks being 
repaired because McAffee anti-virus software was not able to stop the 
thing that came in through Internet Explorer and disabled my firewall. 
There's no way I can catch up with all the past posts, but I think I saw 
some some that might have been about this. I am now using Prevx Edge 
which was recommended by the second shop that got me back up and running.

--Sage

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>From eureka AT hctc.net  Tue Dec 30 18:52:23 2008
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Thanks for everyone's sympathy & support. The human pincushion is home.

There were some positive outcomes from this. First, the people we met at
the state health department were very nice, as in the kind of folks
you'd like to have over. They are organic gardeners and their staff vet
does raw milk and organic cheeses on a ranch not far from us. They are
very excited to hear about our Healthy Harvest group.

Second, the health department's vet took the preventative rabies shots
thirty years ago and has continued to titer out. That means my post
rabies shots may last me as long. If you look at this cost amortized
over thirty years it doesn't seem so bad. Knowing me, I will have
contact with wild animal slobber again sometime. Next time I will only
need to take a titer test.

OK, the details. The nurse walked in with a bouquet of syringes. First I
had two very painful shots of the Human Rabies Immune Globulin into the
top of the thumb until it began to look more like a cartoon thumb. This
bled more than the fox bite. The rest was given in two shots in that
arm. Next, the Rabavert was given in six shots divided between my two
shoulders. These did not feel too bad at the time but not so good now. I
feel like I have a sunburn and have kayaked 16 miles, only I haven't. I
left with two large wads of cotton taped to my shoulders looking like I
had wings amputated.

I have to have all the Rabavert shots again on day 3, 7, 14, and 28. It
looks like my bill from the state will be slightly over $1400 for the
vaccines. I do not know what my doctor's office is charging me yet but
it took up a lot of their time and supplies.

The state forms I had to fill out were pretty straightforward, but their
title disconcerting: Human Rabies Biologicals Payment Agreement and
Surveillance Report. I'm unclear what they will be surveilling, maybe
it's just part of their statistics and I will show up as a tick mark
under fox in my county in the 2008 data.

Well, here's to a rabies-free new year!

--Sage