permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

OK, so who's got one o these? I want one. :-) 
 
 

________________________________
 From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite 
"better than PV panels?"
 
On 1/1/2013 10:26 AM, Robert Waldrop wrote:
> I think in urban areas some kind of district energy setup works, it could
> provide hot and cold water (for cooling and heating, respectively) during 
> their

Complexity, size and cost of facilities with equipment providing 
services could be scaled from groups of homes to neighborhoods to 
communities (urban village, hamlet?) depending on operational efficiency 
and the community's ability to provide operators and maintenance. I 
think Koreen is emphasizing low cost and use of ease of access to 
available materials and equipment, new or recycled. A steam turbine 
should not be difficult to design and build. Manufacture could be done 
in house providing jobs (or community work-trade; keep the "currency" in 
the community) with products distributed to all other communities 
needing them. Products of this sort might include:
1) steam turbine
2) boiler: super high efficiency wood burning combustion chamber and
    pressure vessel with co-generation capability: waste heat is
    recycled for boiler water pre-heating, DHW production (bathing,
    dishwashing, laundry, space heat, greenhouse heat). The combustion
    chamber could be coupled with a cook and bake oven.
3) unique wood fired combustion chamber capable of heating water for
    DHW use, generating steam for the turbine driving generator and
    cooking using a cook and bake oven. If the combustion chamber and
    boiler were located within (and accessable for maintenance) a
    Russian type stove then the building housing the equipment could be
    heated during cold months. Solar pre-heated boiler water could be a
    by product of space heat generation with a solar closet.

I think Ray Cirino will know a lot about this sort of thing.

> seasons, freezer/locker service to householders,laundry service, and do so 
> with
> technologies that might not be feasible at the household level.I'm thinking 
> of a

Yes, a community building could house a kitchen which could have 
refrigeration, freezers, cooking equipment, food preservation equipment,
processing, packaging and prep of garden produce and more. It could also 
house the power generation equipment which would be tied into DHW 
production, cooking and laundry. It could be the full time jobs of a 
number of people managing and maintaining such a facility which could 
run 24/7/365.

> solar driven ammonia adsorbation (if I got that spelling correct) for 
> freezing
> and cooling,

I'll Google this.

> and maybe collected biogas from the residents for heating
> supplemented with biomass furnished by the beneficiaries.  Electricity 
> would be

> from a several sources including on site solar pV, and wind associated with 
> the
> neighborhood "Service Center".

Right. Locate the steam turbine driven electric generator with wind 
turbines, photovoltaic arrays and storage battery banks. All co-located 
at the comprehensive community center with cooking and dining, laundry 
and all kitchen and food storage services. Keep all wiring supplying 
power to appliances as short as possible; everything under one roof so 
to speak.

> Or the district service center could operate via large ground source heat 
> pumps.

For heating and cooling and for preheating water for steam generation. A 
high RPM steam turbine would be a good option, geared down to drive a 
generator.

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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite
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On 1/1/2013 1:30 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> Oops, I missed this! There are some very good ideas here. I'm passing this 
> along to my machine nerd friends :-)

Read all of mine, they are not that long and are part of a continuum
with new info, less typos etc. With each new post I remember more of the
things I meant to post previously, addressing more of the points I
thought important.

Tell me more about fuel cells and why you think they are a local energy
source option.

On 1/1/2013 1:28 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
 > I hear you. But why leave it to each individual neighborhood to
 > devise solutions? Why not put our collective heads together on an
 > international level, here and now? Surely we have more resources
 > combined than we do in little groups, to come up with multiple
 > solutions (there is no one size fits all).

We are doing just that. It has been happening all along.

 > Wood is not the best energy source, I feel, for many reasons. One can
 > create solar steam cogenerator with fuel cell and turbine engine to
 > create electricity.

Tell me more about this: solar steam generator in cold climates.
Maybe with reflector and or Fresnel lens? And again, the fuel cells?
Existing small scale steam turbines?
Time to Google YouTube...

 > This could be created at any scale from backyard
 > to city. There are many possibilities like this. Which would you
 > rather have as an energy source? Something that almost maintains
 > itself, and renews itself whenever the sun shines,

The answer to that is obvious. I was merely suggesting low tech
solutions for small scale but important energy generation and materials
cycling in my previous posts.