permaculture

[venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

On 1/1/2013 4:57 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:

> I believe there is new tech available with fuel cells that could be used for
> local energy, and will let you know more as soon as I have sufficient
> data to be interesting.

I'll look forward to this.
In the meantime I will look into small, shop built steam turbines that 
utilize off the shelf components and machined and welded parts.

> > Oops, I missed this! There are some very good ideas here. I'm
> > passing this along to my machine nerd friends :-)

Let's hear from them here! :-)

> On 1/1/2013 1:28 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> > But why leave it to each individual neighborhood to
> > devise solutions? Why not put our collective heads together on an
> > international level, here and now? Surely we have more resources
> > combined than we do in little groups, to come up with multiple
> > solutions (there is no one size fits all).
>
> We are doing just that. It has been happening all along.
>
> OK, I hear you. We don't quite have it nailed yet, but there are good
> ideas and movement in the right direction, for sure.

I agree, we bneed to keep the discussion going and explore new 
possibilities, technologies, materials.

OK, about the steam turbine, that rural coop group mentioned here from 
time to time is/was interested in a new type of steam turbine utilizing 
some exotic physical principle; it has a unique name and I forget what 
it is and is high rpm.

> > Wood is not the best energy source, I feel, for many reasons. One
> > can create solar steam cogenerator with fuel cell and turbine
> > engine to create electricity.
>
> Tell me more about this: solar steam generator in cold climates.
> Maybe with reflector and or Fresnel lens? And again, the fuel cells?
> Existing small scale steam turbines? Time to Google YouTube...
>
> Yes, solar steam with reflector, fresnel lens.

That should work. I Imagine this to be low but useful output driving a 
turbine that drives a generator. You do need batteries and possibly a
phase converter to be the most useful. Running this system w/o the 
latter still could provide power for water pumping and laundry, and 
certainly water heating plus preheat water for wood fired boiler.
I like the wood fired unit because it focuses people's attention and 
energy; keeps them on some kind of schedule; it should never get to be 
boring.

> A small scale turbine
> would be wonderful, wouldn't it? It needs to exist, if it doesn't.

Darn right it would.

I have taken a course in manual machining, blueprint reading, 
calculations, measurement, layout, manual machining. I could machine a 
rudimentary rotor from a piece of round plate .5" thick by mounting it 
on a dividing head and milling round recesses tangentially around the 
perimeter of the plate at even intervals. This would make a rotor like 
one on a centrifugal water pump or a common waterwheel at a grist mill. 
A more efficient design would be a rotor with radial turbine blades. A 
small diameter unit of this type should work well; it would consist of a 
long arbor or axle with turbine blades mounted to it radially and 
heliacally from front to back; all this would be mounted in a tube with 
inlet and outlet for steam. Have a vacuum cleaner blow air through a 
tube and focus it in the blades of a small computer fan. It really winds 
up fast. I am thinking of a more refined version of this for the steam 
turbine. The blades could be cut from thin flat bar stock on an abrasive 
chopsaw, formed on a hydraulic press, pressed into holes in the arbor 
and mig welded into place. Mount bearings on either end and install into 
the tube. Mount tube, attach steam pipe, fire up the boiler, step back 
and listen to the mighty roar. Then use proper coupling and connect the 
rotor to the arbor of a generator. Gearing the turbine rpm down would 
probably be necessary so add a the necessary gearbox between rotor and 
generator which will probably need to operate at 1750RPM, maybe 2250.

Finding scrap yards and mail order sources of parts, materials and 
components would be in order. Recycling and adapting parts, components 
and entire sections of machines might be a useful option. Maybe some 
surplus outlet offers used turbines of one sort or another that could be 
adapted.

LL