permaculture

[venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>]

To continue this thread, I wanted to mention the Tesla Turbine which I 
had forgotten about when I posted below.

Years ago I had email conversations with Marcin Jacubowski of Open 
Source Ecology about fabricating prototype components for a steam driven 
Tesla Turbine to run machines and generate power. Things never got 
beyond conversation but now I have renewed interest. Generating the 
steam safely is as big an issue as building a working Tesla Turbine.
If anyone has ideas please post them.

Tesla Turbine Google search results:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Tesla+Turbine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Tesla Turbine page, Open Source Ecology wiki
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Tesla_Turbine
On the tesla turbine
On the Tesla turbine - proceed to the simple steam engine, please.
"I know of one commercial tesla pump, and it is very expensive. I know 
of no commercial Tesla engines. Point is - to do this right - with 
longevity and proper seals - is advanced technology, and to my 
knowledge, not yet the realm of 'appropriate technology' engineering. 
Sure, small toys work as examples, just like the Picoturbine works to 
power an LED light.
We considered the Tesla turbine seriously, I had materials quotes lined 
up - and then I found out that a typical implementation is 40% 
efficient, and the best documented one is 60 at http://obilaser.com. 
Piston steam engines are but 15% efficient, steam turbines can be up to 
60% efficient but are very complicated and expensive to make. Note btw 
that most energy is lost in the energy conversion process (to make steam 
from water), the engine itself has nothing to do with it and even the 
most optimal design will still have fairly low energy efficiency ratios. 
Compressed air can be more efficient, but a good full system (so 
including compressor too is difficult to make)
When I recognized this - and considered limited working fluid in a solar 
concentrator sytem - I said bye-bye turbine.
I can provide a much longer discussion on the above."

Tesla Turbine Wikipedia Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine
"The Tesla turbine is a bladeless centripetal flow turbine patented by 
Nikola Tesla in 1913. It is referred to as a bladeless turbine because 
it uses the boundary layer effect and not a fluid impinging upon the 
blades as in a conventional turbine. The Tesla turbine is also known as 
the boundary layer turbine, cohesion-type turbine, and Prandtl layer 
turbine (after Ludwig Prandtl). Bioengineering researchers have referred 
to it as a multiple disk centrifugal pump.[1][2] One of Tesla’s desires 
for implementation of this turbine was for geothermal power, which was 
described in "Our Future Motive Power".[3]"
"Tesla wrote, "This turbine is an efficient self-starting prime mover 
which may be operated as a steam or mixed fluid turbine at will, without 
changes in construction and is on this account very convenient. Minor 
departures from the turbine, as may be dictated by the circumstances in 
each case, will obviously suggest themselves but if it is carried out on 
these general lines it will be found highly profitable to the owners of 
the steam plant while permitting the use of their old installation. 
However, the best economic results in the development of power from 
steam by the Tesla turbine will be obtained in plants especially adapted 
for the purpose." [4]"


On 1/1/2013 9:05 PM, venaurafarm wrote:
> On 1/1/2013 8:05 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> > Damn Laurence, you went off on me there! :-) Gasp, you're a machine
> > nerd!! :-))
>
> I took a really good course in manual machining fundamentals.
>
> Wouldn't mind putting myself to work in the shop developing useful green
> tools and equipment. My present intent is to make hand garden tools. See
> my website: http://www.avantgeared.com. I wrote a garden handtool
> sourcelist that you can access from there.
>
>   > What was explained to me about local turbines  (and I am just
>   > mindlessly repeating what I've been told here :-) is that it takes
>   > the right equipment to tool them correctly so that they work with
>   > maximum efficiency, especially on a broadscale - it's very precise
>   > work and the factories that do that work specialize in large turbines
>   > and it would cost some bucks to retool or build one that could custom
>   > create small turbines.
>
> You are talking precision machines made with special alloys and
> manufacturing processes that have very long service lives an are
> rebuildable.
>
> We do not need such fancy technology for local small steam turbines.
> Make them so they can be rebuilt or repaired or replaced without a lot
> of expense. Set this up so that local shops can do this; shops located
> within communities employing community members.
>
>   > I'm looking at broad scale solutions that
>   > millions could access as well as what machinists might be able to do
>   > in their garages. One acquaintance was using a diesel motor as part
>   > of the hookup which was primitive compared to a custom turbine. Where
>   > you really start getting efficiencies from what I've been told is
>
>   > when combining things like steam solar and fuel cells that can hold
>   > the charge.
>
> Never heard of this, please explain: "steam solar and fuel cells that
> can hold the charge".  thought that fuel cells use hydrogen and operate
> along. How would one combine a fuel cell with a steam turbine? How do
> fuel cells "hold charge". I thought they generated electricity that
> would be stored in batteries.
>
>   > Would love to hear about the new steam turbine, and I cc'ed a couple
>   > of people who will be able to appreciate your description below.
>
> I haven't Googled a single thing about small steam turbines yet or asked
> in the machinist forum I frequent, Practical Machinist. I am sure I will
> find much material in those two places that will be worth looking at. I
> have a machinist website and a machinist mailing list, if anyone is
> interested.
>
> Machine Shop
> http://www.ibiblio.org/machineshop/
>
> Machinist Forum
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/machinist
>
> Here are pix of a shop made anvil a friend welded up for me out of
> recycled materals I had on hand:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/machineshop/flfork+drawbar-anvil/FLFork+Drawbar-ANVIL003.JPG
> http://www.ibiblio.org/machineshop/flfork+drawbar-anvil/FLFork+Drawbar-ANVIL005.JPG