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  • From: Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop1952@att.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite "better than PV panels?"
  • Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 07:26:19 -0800 (PST)

I think in urban areas some kind of district energy setup works, it could
provide hot and cold water (for cooling and heating, respectively) during
their
seasons, freezer/locker service to householders,laundry service, and do so
with
technologies that might not be feasible at the household level.I'm thinking
of a
solar driven ammonia adsorbation (if I got that spelling correct) for
freezing
and cooling, and maybe collected biogas from the residents for heating
supplemented with biomass furnished by the beneficiaries. Electricity would
be
from a several sources including on site solar pV, and wind associated with
the
neighborhood "Service Center".


Or the district service center could operate via large ground source heat
pumps.

Bob Waldrop, OKC






________________________________
From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, January 1, 2013 7:19:26 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite
"better
than PV panels?"

This is great for a homesteader on 10 acres, but I'm looking for something
that
works on a 1/4 acre lot that already has a bunch of stuff on it like food
forests, house and garage (for co-housing), compost, vermicompost, rain
catchment, etc. On a lot that size, you need most or all of the coppiced
wood
for fertility if you don't want to import it. You gotta have something that
goes
on the roof, like PV, or something really small.

This is a design problem that is not handled or solved that I know of. If
everyone on the planet moved to 20 acre homesteads, or 5 acres or even 1 acre
and grew wood for fuel, it wouldn't be the highest use for trees or wood on
this
planet, and therefore not sustainable. It's all well and good to talk about
how
others aren't really applying permaculture, but how many of us are fully off
grid and using fully renewable (over the long term) energy sources that could
work anywhere on the planet - particularly in US suburbs? What would happen
if
we as a group put our collective genius to the task of solving this one?

Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite
"better
than PV panels?"

On 1/1/2013 1:57 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> I hear you - these are great, as long as you have a stream and enough
> altitude change to have meaningful flow/speed.
>
> How about in a typical suburban neighborhood with no streams? Fuel
> cell? Geothermal? Co-generation? Some kind of solar or wind I haven't
> heard of yet? Something that is affordable for most people? And you
> don't have to rip up the foundation of your house to do it?

Co-generation:

Have a woodlot, coppiced or cut trees for fuel feeding a wood-fired
boiler/DHW generator/bake oven providing steam to a steam engine running
a generator charging batteries during hours solar panels or wind turbine
isn't charging them. Use 12/24 VDC current for lights or appliances or a
phase converter to supply 120VAC to appliances such as well pump,
refrigeration, aquaculture/hyrdoponics/aquaponics/irrigation systems.
Very high efficiency, high heat, forced air fed wood burners can be
constructed that would quickly generate steam while providing DHW for
storage in an insulated tank. Combine PV panels, with wind turbines with
steam engine powered electrical generator for a whole systems approach
to of the grid power.

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