permaculture

[Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop1952@att.net>]

I think in urban areas some kind of district energy setup works, it could 
provide hot and cold water (for cooling and heating, respectively) during 
their 
seasons, freezer/locker service to householders,laundry service, and do so 
with 
technologies that might not be feasible at the household level.I'm thinking 
of a 
solar driven ammonia adsorbation (if I got that spelling correct) for 
freezing 
and cooling, and maybe collected biogas from the residents for heating 
supplemented with biomass furnished by the beneficiaries.  Electricity would 
be 
from a several sources including on site solar pV, and wind associated with 
the 
neighborhood "Service Center". 


Or the district service center could operate via large ground source heat 
pumps.

Bob Waldrop, OKC






________________________________
From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tue, January 1, 2013 7:19:26 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite 
"better 
than PV panels?"

This is great for a homesteader on 10 acres, but I'm looking for something 
that 
works on a 1/4 acre lot that already has a bunch of stuff on it like food 
forests, house and garage (for co-housing), compost, vermicompost, rain 
catchment, etc. On a lot that size, you need most or all  of the coppiced 
wood 
for fertility if you don't want to import it. You gotta have something that 
goes 
on the roof, like PV, or something really small. 

This is a design problem that is not handled or solved that I know of. If 
everyone on the planet moved to 20 acre homesteads, or 5 acres or even 1 acre 
and grew wood for fuel, it wouldn't be the highest use for trees or wood on 
this 
planet, and therefore not sustainable. It's all well and good to talk about 
how 
others aren't really applying permaculture, but how many of us are fully off 
grid and using fully renewable (over the long term) energy sources that could 
work anywhere on the planet - particularly in US suburbs?  What would happen 
if 
we as a group put our collective genius to the task of solving this one? 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2013 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Ethical energy use - what is your favorite 
"better 
than PV panels?"

On 1/1/2013 1:57 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> I hear you - these are great, as long as you have a stream and enough
> altitude change to have meaningful flow/speed.
>
> How about in a typical suburban neighborhood with no streams? Fuel
> cell? Geothermal? Co-generation? Some kind of solar or wind I haven't
> heard of yet? Something that is affordable for most people? And you
> don't have to rip up the foundation of your house to do it?

Co-generation:

Have a woodlot, coppiced or cut trees for fuel feeding a wood-fired 
boiler/DHW generator/bake oven providing steam to a steam engine running 
a generator charging batteries during hours solar panels or wind turbine 
isn't charging them. Use 12/24 VDC current for lights or appliances or a 
phase converter to supply 120VAC to appliances such as well pump, 
refrigeration, aquaculture/hyrdoponics/aquaponics/irrigation systems. 
Very high efficiency, high heat, forced air fed wood burners can be 
constructed that would quickly generate steam while providing DHW for 
storage in an insulated tank. Combine PV panels, with wind turbines with 
steam engine powered electrical generator for a whole systems approach 
to of the grid power.

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