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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Robert Walton wrote:
> I was a kid in the 60s, came into my teens in the 70s. Ever since I 
> remember, dodging the draft was a good thing. Sometimes I guess I'm 
> in my own world, but it's still funny to hear people talk about that
>  being a bad thing.

I was a kid in the 60's, came into my teens in the 70s.  Ever since I
remember, dodging the draft was an illegal thing.  Sometimes I guess I'm
in my own world, but it's still funny to hear people talk about that
being a good thing.

:)

Your words sound as foreign to me as mine must to you. More and more, I
feel very disconnected, alien to this society.

My comments are going to be pretty much from the gut, so I reserve the
right to change my mind later after being enlightened by some of our
deeper thinkers, BUT..

It is interesting to me that some people today want to protect the
rights of everyone-all rights of all people, all the time, but no one
ever really wants to be that person that stands up for the rights of the
fillintheblanksectofhumanity and put the evilbadguy down anymore.  There
is no resolve.  Many times, they are satisfied with appeasement or happy
if the evilbadguy finds someone else to bully/kill.  Sometimes it makes
sense to take out the evilbadguy before he comes for you.  That has been
the reasoning/logic that this country has used for the last few wars
anyway.  This is apparently the issue with some of you, I guess...

No one in their right mind would ever want the death and rape and
destruction and loss of humanity that war brings, but we all have our
needs and wants..Japan wanted oil, Saddam wanted Kuwait, the US wants
Osama, the Palestinians want land, the Israelis want the Promised Land,
etc.  We are a warring species, plain and simple.  We ask, and if we do
not get, then we demand, and if we do not get, then we take by force.  I
believe this to be true of all humanity, whether that human is a
paleolithic tribe or NATO.  We point our fingers and say the Evilbadguy
is over there...maybe he is, and maybe he is not...only time will tell.
 There are some (TJ's scout leader comes to mind) who served in the
European theatre of WWII that wanted to be in the Pacific fighting the
"real" evilbadguys..as I am sure there were some guys on Bataan who
wished they were fighting the other evilbadguy.  With time, we learn the
truth that perhaps only a few knew then, that it was indeed an axis and
that there were camps in Europe where people's skin became lampshades
and there were camps in China where people were tied to stakes and used
as targets for weapons or as guinea pigs for germ warfare experiments.
I believe we are still too close to Iraq to know whether or not our
nation made the right decision.  All the facts are not in.  At first
things appeared one way, and now they appear another way; it is still a
fluid situation.  During these times, when our country, when our
leaders, send our citizens into war, we have to trust that somehow,
there is greater good to it, even though it can not be seen at the time.
 I'm not God, or all seeing, so I can't say what the greater good was to
any particular conflict the US has engaged in..maybe it wasn't there,
but to have any hope that the world will one day be a better place, I
personally have to believe it exists.


Being a child of people that went back to the land
> in the 60s, I just grew up thinking that burning drat cards was a 
> brave thing to do.

It is a good thing that those who fought in the past so that you could
exercise your right to say/write such things did not agree with you that
draft dodging is a good thing or that destroying their draft card is a
'brave' thing.  I think bravery is when you act without regard to
yourself, and I think those who served/are serving would probably agree
with that definition, even if it is not complete.
If you just gotta make a stand, do it the way that Muhammed Ali did it,
by not stepping forward, and then serving your time(and then taking it
to court to clear your name).  I think that takes more courage than
burning a card, or going to Canada, or faking an injury-it would for me,
for sure.  That is someone who is willing to sacrifice for his
convictions and literally stand up for his beliefs.  I respect that, and
I think at least on some level, those who sacrificed for this country
would also respect that. I do think people can serve in multiple ways,
and I certainly don't think that people who did not serve are
necessarily unpatriotic. My birthfather disliked John Wayne for his
'deferments'(now there's a controversy), but there are not too many
people who would argue that John Wayne is unpatriotic.  But I am
getting ahead of myself...
> It's really funny to hear people my parents age (old hippies) talk 
> about how Clinton or Bush didn't serve. Wasn't that what they admired
>  in the 60s? I guess not everyone did or they just forgot.

Or perhaps they simply became more conservative as they grew up/got
older.  We do become less naive, but also hopefully wiser and more able
to see the big picture or take the long term view of things.

None of that really explains how you and I, almost the same age, can see
things so differently.  The answer has to be in our parents. You said
that yours were old hippies who went back to the land.  My adoptive
parents were older(now in their late 70's), and they were even more
conservative than I am.  My birthfather fought at Guadalcanal, Americal
Division. I proudly wear his division patch on my jacket, right under
the American flag to honor him.  By all of their standards, though, I am
a bleeding heart, and have been called such, and worse.  Your parents
were obviously very liberal, and my parents were obviously very
conservative.  I am closer to center than my parents, as I suspect you
are as well(compared to the way they were).  You would think that we
would all become more like-minded as we all gravitate towards the
middle, but something always shakes things up, I guess.  Who foresaw, in
the 50's,the polarizing effects of immigration from Central America, or
gay marriage, abortion, or any of the other issues we face today.  Each
generation seems to face a new dilemma that must be reconsiled and that
always stirs the pot.  I think it is a natural process in a democratic
country where we are all free to express our beliefs and opinions.

> I remember being 16 or so and a lot of the thought me and my friends
>  had was what a hard act our generation had to follow with the
> hippies and the 60s and all. I don't think we did any better. I guess
>  becoming Yuppies was just as bad as being at the cusp and then 
> forgetting you ever got there.
>
> Rob - Va Glad I did not do the Yuppie thing.

At 16, I was trying literally to survive my own Hell and wasn't thinking
like that at all.  I think, honestly, I have always been a bit of an
outsider.  I was raised in the South, with genes and a heritage from the
North.  I never truly fit in with my adopted family or my step family. I
identify with my biological family, yet I never lived with them as
family normally does.  I was just outside of the popular crowd in high
school-too much a nerd to be cool...In college, I represented myself as
a Preppie, but didn't have the money for it in reality, so that was an
illusion, too.  I married, and while we were Young and Upwardly mobile,
we were only blue collar, not Professionals(read no money-again), so at
best we were Yuppie wannabes.  I left that life for this one, and still,
I can't seem to get it right, and I am once again, just on the edge of
something I can't seem to attain.  So I feel like I am always on the
cusp, but never quite able to become a part of a group where I feel that
I truly fit or belong.

You know, I am 1/4 French, a bloodline that I usually don't like to
claim. The families(2) hail from the Lorraine province....could it be
possible that I, the determined misfit tomboy with a deep patriotic bent
and love of War movies, am the reincarnation of Joan of Arc?<g> Oh yeah,
I forgot she was religious...scratch that<G>...but please, don't burn me
at the stake,(again) okay? ;)

Bev


--
“Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to
hate. Hate leads to suffering.”        Yoda