Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

Hey Karl, I hope I am not being stubborn or bothering you all but when you 
say: "This is not a case of nakedness vs. clothed, rather between being and 
non-being."

Response: But I think the word 'came' as in 'They came into being 
naked."sounds like something has changed.  Sort of like if I said "and I 
became ill."  Signals that at one time I was not ill but something changed 
and now I am ill.  Or even in the biblical text when the word of God 'hayah' 
someone.  It comes to them meaning that it at one time was not there and now 
is.  It just seems to me that the author of Genesis is simply making a 
statement about the two.  "They were naked."

You go on to say:What is the subject of YHYW? I read it as YMYM $LW$H three 
days. There  was so much booty that "it became three days" they were 
plundering the  booty. 

Response: But it seems like you have 'hayah' doing double duty.  Three days 
is the subject but in your translation you use a null subject 'it.'  'It' is 
the subject of your translation, and then you have 'became' as the verb which 
I assume is 'hayah' but then you have 'they were plundering.'  Which seems 
like you linked hayah to the participle as well.

In my opinion, it seems best to take the participle as a predicate to hayah.  
For three days they were plundering.

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> 

> Kelton: 
> 
> On 10/5/06, kgraham0938 AT comcast.net wrote: 
> > 
> > So that is how I have always seen it, not to be say this is a trump card 
> > or 
> anything but just my understanding of it and where it came from. And with 
> regards to Gen 2:25 when you said "they came into a state of being naked." 
> Were'nt they already naked? It does not seems to me that they were becoming 
> nake but already naked. 
> 
> This is not a case of nakedness vs. clothed, rather between being and 
> non-being. 
> 
> > ... Another example I'd like to get your opinion on is 2 Chr 20:25. 
> > 
> > vayih:yw yamiym $:lo$h boz:ziym , it looks to me that the verb is 
> > functioning 
> more like a past progressive 'were plundering.' What are your thoughts? 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Kelton Graham 
> > KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net 
> 
> What is the subject of YHYW? I read it as YMYM $LW$H three days. There 
> was so much booty that "it became three days" they were plundering the 
> booty. 
> 
> Karl W. Randolph. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> b-hebrew mailing list 
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net  Thu Oct  5 13:02:50 2006
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-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com> 

> Hi Kelton, 
> 
> Re Gen 2:25, they came into being naked. That means from the start, 
> from their being created, they were naked. The verse is not just saying 
> that they were naked (read verbless clause, sheneyhem `arumiym). It is 
> stating that they came about or came into being naked (read wayyiqtol 
> clause, vayyihyu sheneyhem `arumiym). 

Response: Oh I see, (light bulb).  I did not realize that you were talking 
about their origin.  That is very interesting.

> 
> Re 2Chr 20:25, we can read it "three days transpired (vayyihyu) 
> plundering the spoil..." or "Those plundering the spoil did their thing 
> (vayyihyu) three days..." I think the word order recommends the former. 
> 
> Shalom, 
> Bryan 

Response:  That is cool as well, I always took the participle as a predicate 
to hayah here.  But at least I understand your point.


--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net
>From janpieter AT giessen.fol.nl  Thu Oct  5 14:57:08 2006
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Num 11: 5 khaw-tseer'
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Thanks for all comments,

As far I understand the word has this meaning in post-Biblical translations,
further it is not an Egyptian loanword because in this language the name is
"iaqet" (see: Medinet Habu calendar and the Ebers papyrus).

Because in this verse 2 other "alliums" are mentiond (the onion and garlic) it
is logical khaw-tseer' is also an allium. 

Jan Pieter van de Giessen
Blog: http://bijbelaantekeningen.blogspot.com/