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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Judges 16:30 - Verb with no use, MY PROBLEM!

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  • From: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
  • To: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Judges 16:30 - Verb with no use, MY PROBLEM!
  • Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:36:38 -0400

Dear Kelton,

Not to answer for Peter, but to support him:

I think clauses constructed with the verbal root HYH are not equivalent to noun sentences (a.k.a. verbless clause). In other words, I do not think of HYH as a copula. Rather it means refers essentially to a happening.

On the other hand, we can't force a particular wooden translation to work in every case of HYH. Sometimes HYH can even refer to someone "coming along" as in movement to a place.

Genesis 2:25 in particular would be something like this: "They came into being naked."

Hoping to help.

Shalom,
Bryan

kgraham0938 AT comcast.net wrote:
Hello Peter,
I am curious about your statement about WAYIH:YW = become as opposed to
'were.' What do you think is the difference btw Judges 16:30 and Genesis
2:25?

WAYIH:YW $N"HEM `RWMMIYM.... would you translate this as "They became
naked.." or am I misreading your point? Thanks

--
Kelton Graham KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- From: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
On 03/10/2006 18:08, Chris and Nel wrote:
... I am so used to reading sentences without "to be " in them that I still can not fathom its purpose here, considering that without it I actually arrived at the correct translation without looking at the English.
Now can someone be kind enough pleeeease..... to relieve me of my making a fool of myself on this board?

The distinction may be that sentences in which "to be" is omitted are usually (always?) stative, indicating a continuing state, like English "be", whereas those starting with WAYHIY, and here with its plural form WAYIHYUW, indicate actions, like English "became". Thus a literal translation would be "And the dead... became more than the dead...". The meaning is of course "More people died... than...", an action. A translation like Kelton's "Those who were dead ... *were* many, more than..." is misleading because it suggests a state, a count of bodies already dead. But in fact we have an action here, a large number of people dying. (Dare I suggest a prototype of today's suicide bombers, except here we have an Israelite killing Gentiles in Gaza?)

--
B. M. Rocine
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13026
(W): 315.437.6744




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