Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

sm-discuss - Re: [SM-Discuss] bugs in test grimoire (was: switch)

sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Public SourceMage Discussion List

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Flavien Bridault <f.bridault AT fra.net>
  • To: sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Discuss] bugs in test grimoire (was: switch)
  • Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:08:16 +0200

Le vendredi 02 septembre 2005 à 20:56 -0700, Seth Alan Woolley a écrit :
> On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 04:27:49PM -0700, Eric Sandall wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Sep 2005, Flavien Bridault wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> > That's why we have a /stable/ grimoire that goes through at least a
> > modicum of formal testing. Test grimoire is just packages integrated
> > that worked for a developer. Devel is the playground. Choose your
> > grimoire wisely.
>
> I can't stress this enough. If you want to be on a stable system, use
> stable grimoire. If you want to test out somewhat tested packages, use
> stable-rc. If you want to test out all the latest updates, use test,
> but you DON'T run to the mailing list complaining about problems. Use
> bug reports for that ;).
>
Sorry I have only one machine available both for my personal usage and
for SMGL dev. To develop correctly on SMGL, I'm obliged to use test
grimoire, and you're right, that is true that I forgot often that it is
really a "test" grimoire. Anyway I think it is not a bad thing to use it
for a personal usage since you can test a large number of softwares in
the same time, and in real usage, not only with just casts.

> We really don't need a warning on test integrations -- that's just
> absurd. Even ones that will break boxes. I run my development box on
> straight devel grimoire and careful review of the mailing lists, irc,
> and perforce help me keep it running. One notice somewhere that it's
> risky is good, but if you didn't think it would break tons of things,
> there's not much we can do about it. That's what test grimoire is for.
>

HISTORY says :

2005-07-11 -------<snip>---------------
* DETAILS: 0.9.8

So saying it was not known that it would need to recompile a lot of
spells is maybe not very sincere. One month and a half is sufficient to
notice that I think.

> Moreover, there was an entire thread on the mailing list for this
> integration:
>
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/sm-discuss/2005-August/012089.html

I know, thanks. I have read it before. Here is what I can quote about
our problem :

"I propose moving both of these into test, with some time interval
between. The reason why OpenSSL 0.9.8 should go into test is because it
doesn't break anything with very few exceptions (I found one and
patched, httpd-dev)."

Note that, if I understood well, Sergey is talking about the spells that
will not compile at all, not the one that will need to be recompiled.
That the last that annoyed me, the first indeed don't cause any problem.
Sorry, I have not as much as experience as you, and I didn't understand
this implies that a lot of spells would need to be recompiled. Maybe
that has been said before, but I was not aware of that. And speaking
with another people, I'm not the only one. :-/

> And really, the box isn't totally broken just from an openssl update.
>
Yes it's true it was not broken. I could have even reboot my box. Here
are the spells that were recompiled, it only covers 13% of the spells on
my box, but cleanse --fix took me 9 hours :

control-center2 gdm2 gnome-session
libcaca nautilus-cd-burner scrollkeeper
ctorrent gedit2 gnome-terminal
libextractor nautilus-sendto seahorse
cups gftp2 gnome-utils2
libgnome net-ssleay smgl-fhs
curl gnome-applets2 gnopernicus
libgnomecups ooodi totem
espgs gnome-cups-manager grip2
libgnomesu openldap transcode
evolution2 gnome-desktop gst-player
libgnomeui php xine-lib
flac gnome-media2 gst-plugins
librsvg2 python xine-ui
gcalctool gnome-menus imap
libtool rdesktop yelp
gconf-editor gnome-panel libbonoboui
man-pages ruby
audacity engrave gdesklets
gnomemeeting kdelibs openoffice-bin
e17genmenu evidence gimp-print
hc-cron nautilus-gtkhtml pwlib
ecore evince gkrellm2
jdk1.5-bin nautilus-media rhythmbox
edje evolution-data-server glibc
k3b openh323 vlc

The most are gnome spells as you can see, but I heard this was the same
with KDE.

> In the future, we can pick one place to put notices that stuff is risky
> instead of having people check irc, ml, etc. I suggest that not be the
> HISTORY file nor the Changelog, otherwise a false alarm might work its
> way up the grimoire to stable, and I'd rather not have to filter every
> changelog-like file for stuff that's not relevant anymore.
>
> I think a note to the mailing list would be best. It's the best place
> currently, and Sergey made the right decision here.
>

Just a question, what will you do for the integration into stable-rc and
then in stable ? You will integrate it as it is now ? Without any notice
in the spell ? So, if you include one, or any mechanism, why not do it
at the beginning in devel ? Is that really too painful ? Trying to keep
test grimoire as much stable as possible is anyway the better thing to
have a good stable grimoire then.
I insist that in this case, I'm sure it was known. So I don't understand
why it is better to break things when we know it, just because it is
test grimoire and that we don't mind, because people must keep them
aware by themselves ?

However I'm guilty, I must admit, because I didn't know that openssl
0.9.7d->0.9.8 update will imply an API change. When a gcc or glibc
update comes, its true that I'm much more careful, regardless to the
eventual posts in the ML. The next time I will know that. ;-)
But please keep in mind that everybody may have not as much experience
as you. Certain things can seem obvious to you, but that's not the case
for anyone. I try to help as much as I can and try to keep my section as
much as up-to-date and bug-free as possible, however I have not always
enough time to read all the ML posts and keep myself aware about the
particularities of each spell. Now if you think it is a crime...

> Seth
>
--
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
Flavien Bridault
Source Mage GNU/Linux - Disk Section Guru

irc: vlaaad
jabber: vlaaad AT amessage.be

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page