permaculture

[Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network <lakinroe@silcom.com>]

one of the great pleasures is to hit the delete button every time i see  
Steve Hart’s name and send it to electronic  composed  pile-feels so good 

On Jul 13, 2016, at 8:34 AM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Andy and Joe for the counter offensive. I could have assumed this
> comment would raise a few heckles and receive such counter attack of my
> personality. Which in itself detracts from the subject of the thread of my
> original comment. It has nothing to do with permission or approval.
> Probably more about observation and awareness. One of our design tools.
> 
> Andy, I applaud loudly any energy that helps to spread the great deeds that
> the Permaculture movement offers and all the bridge building to boot. We
> all know this is very much needed. There are many many people doing this in
> every corner of the planet now. But I find it very difficult to sit back
> and watch silently, as many people are abused, projects hijacked, insulted,
> ripped off, run roughshod over, rights stolen, lied to by a fraud on an
> agenda which from what most of believe is counter to the ethics and
> principles of Permaculture for their own glorification and financial
> rewards. Probably counter to most religious denominations as well. Who
> looks after damage control Andy ? Perhaps you will both one day wake up to
> the abuses carried out by Lawton and his clan, perhaps you will remain
> blind. Time will tell. I will try to keep an open mind.
> 
> And, if no one ever spoke up and invited debate Joe, whatever form it comes
> in then you and many more would probably vote for Blair again too. Who will
> vote for Clinton this year ? A recognised felon. Or should I be part of the
> new "passive aggressive" and just stab people in the back politely, rather
> than be up front and honest.
> 
> Jay..I do get on and do it...always have done, in many forms. But I'm
> afraid I do not stick my head in the sand and ignore what else is going on
> around me. I've never really been one for watching a forest burn while
> drinking from its stream.
> 
> Lawrence..Nice story of Ayn Rand..I read only "The Fountainhead" and never
> really bought into her objectivism that insidiously. We see the abuse of
> civilisations all across the planet. Imperialism it could be boxed. We
> English are very good at it. So are the French, Spanish and Portuguese.
> Americans are catching up fast.
> 
> So Andy I hope you can lock Lawton up in England, his mother land and keep
> him as your guru, provider or charlatan, or pied piper while he passes on
> the skills he has developed to a more honest brigade.
> 
> All the best for the conference. I'm sure many will be inspired.....Steve
> Hart
> 
> On 14 July 2016 at 00:58, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 6:38 AM, Amy Little <amylittle@hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Whoa! I didn't know these folks followed Ayn Rand!
>>> 
>> 
>> I haven't seen much of that lately probably because they keep it under
>> wraps but in the past it was prominently displayed
>> along with the divine right of people to get rich from permaculture, geting
>> rich ahead of everything alse about permaculture.
>> Some low hanging fruit: She has a problem with savages; they obviously
>> don't know much about money, or care.
>> "Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's
>> whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is
>> the process of setting man free from men."
>> Absurd.
>> “Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That
>> sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter.”
>> Here is the kicker:
>> "[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land and there was no
>> reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and
>> were not using.... What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed
>> white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive
>> existence, their "right" to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and
>> not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live
>> practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person
>> who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this
>> continent."
>> "Now, I don't care to discuss the alleged complaints American Indians have
>> against this country. I believe, with good reason, the most unsympathetic
>> Hollywood portrayal of Indians and what they did to the white man. They had
>> no right to a country merely because they were born here and then acted
>> like savages. The white man did not *conquer* this country. And you're a
>> racist if you object, because it means you believe that certain men are
>> entitled to something because of their race. You believe that if someone is
>> born in a magnificent country and doesn't know what to do with it, he still
>> has a property right to it. He does not. Since the Indians did not have the
>> concept of property or property rights--they didn't have a settled society,
>> they had predominantly nomadic tribal "cultures"--they didn't have rights
>> to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights that
>> they had not conceived of and were not using. It's wrong to attack a
>> country that respects (or even tries to respect) individual rights. If you
>> do, you're an aggressor and are morally wrong. But if a "country" does not
>> protect rights--if a group of tribesmen are the slaves of their tribal
>> chief--why should you respect the "rights" that they don't have or respect?
>> The same is true for a dictatorship. The citizens in it have individual
>> rights, but the country has no rights and so anyone has the right to invade
>> it, because rights are not recognized in that country; and no individual or
>> country can have its cake and eat it too--that is, you can't claim one
>> should respect the "rights" of Indians, when they had no concept of rights
>> and no respect for rights. But let's suppose they were all beautifully
>> innocent savages--which they certainly were not. What were they fighting
>> for, in opposing the white man on this continent? For their wish to
>> continue a primitive existnece; for their "right" to keep part of the earth
>> untouched--to keep everybody out so they could live like animals or
>> cavemen. Any European who brought with him an element of civilization had
>> the right to take over this continent, and it's great that some of them
>> did. The racist Indians today--those who condemn America--do not respect
>> individual rights."
>> Public Television showed a documentary on the Wounded Knee confrontation
>> between the Indians and the FBI at Wounded Knee. If you are interested in
>> American Indian culture you might want to try to find this video. It does
>> not in any way excuse the illegality of the violence committed by those
>> Indians and it goes into great detail about what those who opposed them
>> did. Take special note of the Indian chanting by a male and a female singer
>> at the beginning and end of this movie. It is one of the most beautiful and
>> haunting pieces of music I have ever heard.
>> --
>> Lawrence F. London
>> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
>> https://ello.co/lflondon <https://ello.co/permaculture>
>> https://ello.co/permaculture
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kia ora Ehoa
> 
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> 
> Permaculture Global Design:
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> 
> The Permaculture International College
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> 
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