permaculture

[paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>]

Pertaining to the subject line: "on an ethics of Mr Pittman"

I wonder if the folks that are concerned are the same folks that sing
the "don't judge people" song.  And, here they are, judging away.

Well, I sing the "always judge people" song.  And so when I see we are
singling one person out to turn the cold eye of judgement on them, I
want to play too.

After reading all of this I want to pass my judgement:  good job Scott.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org> 
wrote:
> This has become a little tedious, having to listen to all the Monday nite
> quarterbacks evaluate whether I considered this or that in providing a
> course for the Army National Guard.  I have heard nothing new from anyone on
> this list to add to the considerations already made before I made the
> decision.
>
>
>
> The teaching team that worked with me also added their considerations and
> questions and we all agreed to do this.  I also questioned the chain of
> command of decision making by the military.  Who initiated the requests for
> technological assistance?  Who determined which village was selected?  Were
> any seeds being imported into Afghanistan thereby threatening the genetic
> integrity of thousands of years of plant breeding?
>
>
>
> To imply that we were teaching a program in a U.S. post peak oil context is
> absurd, I wouldn't do that in this country let alone Afghanistan.  So rather
> than this being a discussion of how to interface with the institutions that
> are most influential in destroying cultures and environments this is a free
> for all over all of the things that might be wrong even making the attempt.
>
>
>
> That some how this group of 14 national guardsmen imbedded in one small
> rural village of Afghanistan will affect the way permaculture is seen in
> Iran, Iraq, and Pakistan is a stretch and even if the ripples do reach that
> far I have faith in the native intelligence of those cultures to check it
> out on the web and other information sources before deciding out of hand
> that it is another imperialistic trick.
>
>
>
> Just to be clear I also worked in Haiti with a grant from the Corporate
> Giant Mars and didn't find that permaculture was branded with the
> Corporatist label in Cuba.  I think that many of the comments here are
> reminiscent of "White Mans' Burden" or in loco parentis which views third
> world cultures as not being capable of thoughtful assessment of whether
> something makes sense or not.  I know from experience that if it makes sense
> that they will use it and if it doesn't they will not.
>
>
> From all of the many respondents to the National Guard course only responses
> from the permaculture group have been negative, which maybe speaks to how
> precious we have become.
>
>
>
> I find many of the responses on this group to be distasteful in the sense
> that they never rise above the obvious; I find that permaculture is a way
> more complex system for such simplistic understandings and concerns.  I keep
> looking for the meat in these communications and I only see white bread.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Pittman
>
> Director
>
> Permaculture Institute
>
> www.permaculture.org <http://www.permaculture.org/>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kathyann [mailto:knat@sprintmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:13 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] on an ethics of Mr Pittman (and the US military)
>
>
>
>  On 8/11/2010 9:33 AM, Cory Brennan wrote:
>
>> The thing that Nicholas and others are missing the boat on completely is
> that permaculture, as a design science, TRANSFORMS SYSTEMS.  Which means
> that if permaculture were truly applied to the US military, it would
> transform it into something completely different. It would no longer exist
> as it exists right now.
>
> I don't think they are missing that, but addressing a concern that
>
> "permaculture methods" forced as a formula (which is traditionally how
>
> our military has structured their actions) can have an unfortunate
>
> effect of inoculating the populous against the ideas behind the methods.
>
> There is much experience in the invasion by religious missionaries into
>
> cultures to draw that concern. I, too, think we need to give credit to
>
> the recipients to discern and acknowledge the next view will be a
>
> combination of what is offered, what is given, what is utilized, and
>
> what is self-generated.
>
> In this forum, we think of design including the knowledge of the people
>
> who live with an area as permaculture. Design from afar, imposed on an
>
> area, no matter how benevolent the overlord, is unduly influenced by
>
> antibody reaction. So a "method" introduction with techniques rather
>
> than design empowerment seems not only limited but prone to
>
> misunderstanding.
>
> Goals of reestablishment are at odds. Within a culture still without
>
> peak oil lifeview is not the same as postpeak US. The US has depleted
>
> our supplies and if their citizenry rebuild in our likeness they will,
>
> in a few short years, be settled to consume rather than export their
>
> supply and we will not have had time to retool without oil.
>
> I think it is a fine ideal that we structure our help in rebuilding to
>
> be a model of globally appropriate scale (if we ourselves are similarly
>
> required to that model.) Yet, the question remains, can one who has come
>
> into an area to force a change, ever actually make the change or is the
>
> system too caught up in fighting the invasion to heal with the invader
>
> still present. Permaculture does give rise to an interesting thought of
>
> forced symbiosis. Hard to picture the US military being aware enough for
>
> accepting the compromises necessary. But it would be interesting. Tree
>
> grafters have ideas? (scuse me if I don't call on the gene-splicers
>
> right now.)
>
>
>
> Kathyann
>
>
>
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