permaculture

[LBUZZELL@aol.com]

Hi Cory,
 
Thanks for the clarification.  It's true that some psychiatrists were  
involved as well. Dr. Ewen Cameron is a frightening example of a healing  
professional gone wrong.
 
While I agree that the problems with psychologists and psychiatrists aren't 
 an exact parallel, I believe it's wise to remember that in the pioneering 
era of  Freud and Jung, when psychiatry and therapy were as young as 
permaculture is  now, the new field of mental health was reasonably 
idealistic, 
mostly talk  therapy and some notable free care social initiatives.  We've 
had  
over 100 years to screw up the profession.  I'm sure the early pioneers  
would be spinning in their graves at the field's current drug pushing,  
mind-bending marketing research and military collusions.    Looking at this 
history, I still feel it a cautionary tale for any new  profession thinking 
of 
embedding itself in an occupying army. 
 
And yes of course Scott isn't doing anything like what some of today's  
mental health military collaborators (what else can you call them?) are 
doing,  
but I believe that permaculture should be cautious about taking even one 
tiny  step along that road...
 
Linda
 
 
In a message dated 8/12/2010 1:26:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
cory8570@yahoo.com writes:

Linda,  

The situation with psychiatrists/psychologists is quite different than  
permaculture. Mainstream psychiatrists' main activity is using drugs,  
electroshock, involuntary commitment and other invasive methods to treat  
mental 
symptoms - this is not a sustainable practice nor is it holistic. I am  aware 
of the divisive camps within psychology, where some are more focused on  
holistic, regenerative approaches and some are just referral services for 
drug  
companies via MDs or psychiatrists. 

"Journey Into Madness" and other  documentation illustrates how 
psychiatrists were in fact behind the CIA mind  control experiments on 
unsuspecting 
Canadian and US citizens (MKULTRA), drug  and lobotomy experimentation on 
prisoners and minorities, eugenics policies in  the US and Germany, etc. Some 
of 
the most respected psychiatrists at  Universities were involved in 
military/intelligence operations that led to use  of torture techniques 
throughout 
the world in various military organizations  (Middle East, El Salvador, etc). 
 
Psychiatrists do take the Hippocratic  Oath but obviously, there are a 
number of them that have broken that oath.  They were not "co-opted" or 
corrupted, it was their idea in the first place.  They (like Dr Ewen Camaron 
- 
"psychic driving") were already doing these  experiments on their patients 
before 
partnering with the military. 

I  can't see Scott (who was one of my instructors for my PDC) or any of the 
rest  of us going down any such road. It is not the same thing, at all.  

Cory

--- On Thu, 8/12/10, LBUZZELL@aol.com  <LBUZZELL@aol.com> wrote:

> From: LBUZZELL@aol.com  <LBUZZELL@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] on an ethics of  Mr Pittman (and the US 
military)
> To:  permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:05  PM
> you might want to ask permaculture
> activist Joshua Fattal  who has  been
> > arrested by the Iranian government and accused  of
> espionage whether  it
> > would help him or others  like him that "permaculture"
> is now
> >  celebrated as a  US army reserve "hearts and
> minds"
> >   counterinsurgency/sustainment technique
>  
> I have to admit  that this point is hard to disagree
>  with.   Permaculture 
> was perhaps better off when it  was seen as a
> politically  neutral Australian 
> land and  people care system being used in many
> countries  with widely  
> different governmental systems, from Cuba to the US. 
>   
> Although I'm very sympathetic to Scott's and others'
>  eagerness to spread  
> permaculture far and wide, I must conclude  that it was a
> mistake for world  
> permaculture to get  involved with the first-world occupying
> army in a third  
>  world country, however eager the recruits were to learn
> about   permaculture. 
>  
>  
> Corporations have but one  motive: profit. Armies likewise
> have but one  
> motive: to  use force or other more subtle enforcement
> methods to vanquish   
> enemies.  Their aims and even techniques may appear to
>  be beneficient,  but we 
> must not be naive.  And even if we  view some military
> as "good  guys," how 
> does  permaculture make the distinction on a global level
> without   politicizing 
> itself?
>  
> Permaculture is an  exciting new profession and deserves to
> flourish  
>  independent of destructive entanglements.  I have seen
>  similar  problems happen in 
> my own field of mental health:  psychologists who got 
> involved with the 
> military  developed torture techniques for the CIA and
> were,  alas,  actively 
> involved at Abu Ghraib.  I realize we haven't  done
> anything  like this yet -- 
> but caution is needed.  The "psychology in the
> military"  issue has split the 
>  American Psychological Association into warring factions
> for   years, some 
> supporting those involved with the military and
>  others  against.  
>  
> In just this short  dialogue I see the beginnings of similar
> problems in  
>  permaculture unless some clear ethical guidelines are laid
> down to  prevent  
> permaculture from being used by the military and  various
> governments for their 
>  own purposes.  Psychiatrists, by the way, avoided the
> problems faced by the  
>  psychologists because they take a Hippocratic oath that
>  prevents them from 
> doing  some of the unfortunate things a  few
> psychologists have done.
>  
> Linda  Buzzell-Saltzman
> 
> 
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