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  • From: LBUZZELL@aol.com
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] on an ethics of Mr Pittman (and the US military)
  • Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:14:56 EDT

Hi Cory,

Thanks for the clarification. It's true that some psychiatrists were
involved as well. Dr. Ewen Cameron is a frightening example of a healing
professional gone wrong.

While I agree that the problems with psychologists and psychiatrists aren't
an exact parallel, I believe it's wise to remember that in the pioneering
era of Freud and Jung, when psychiatry and therapy were as young as
permaculture is now, the new field of mental health was reasonably
idealistic,
mostly talk therapy and some notable free care social initiatives. We've
had
over 100 years to screw up the profession. I'm sure the early pioneers
would be spinning in their graves at the field's current drug pushing,
mind-bending marketing research and military collusions. Looking at this
history, I still feel it a cautionary tale for any new profession thinking
of
embedding itself in an occupying army.

And yes of course Scott isn't doing anything like what some of today's
mental health military collaborators (what else can you call them?) are
doing,
but I believe that permaculture should be cautious about taking even one
tiny step along that road...

Linda


In a message dated 8/12/2010 1:26:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cory8570@yahoo.com writes:

Linda,

The situation with psychiatrists/psychologists is quite different than
permaculture. Mainstream psychiatrists' main activity is using drugs,
electroshock, involuntary commitment and other invasive methods to treat
mental
symptoms - this is not a sustainable practice nor is it holistic. I am aware
of the divisive camps within psychology, where some are more focused on
holistic, regenerative approaches and some are just referral services for
drug
companies via MDs or psychiatrists.

"Journey Into Madness" and other documentation illustrates how
psychiatrists were in fact behind the CIA mind control experiments on
unsuspecting
Canadian and US citizens (MKULTRA), drug and lobotomy experimentation on
prisoners and minorities, eugenics policies in the US and Germany, etc. Some
of
the most respected psychiatrists at Universities were involved in
military/intelligence operations that led to use of torture techniques
throughout
the world in various military organizations (Middle East, El Salvador, etc).

Psychiatrists do take the Hippocratic Oath but obviously, there are a
number of them that have broken that oath. They were not "co-opted" or
corrupted, it was their idea in the first place. They (like Dr Ewen Camaron
-
"psychic driving") were already doing these experiments on their patients
before
partnering with the military.

I can't see Scott (who was one of my instructors for my PDC) or any of the
rest of us going down any such road. It is not the same thing, at all.

Cory

--- On Thu, 8/12/10, LBUZZELL@aol.com <LBUZZELL@aol.com> wrote:

> From: LBUZZELL@aol.com <LBUZZELL@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] on an ethics of Mr Pittman (and the US
military)
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 1:05 PM
> you might want to ask permaculture
> activist Joshua Fattal who has been
> > arrested by the Iranian government and accused of
> espionage whether it
> > would help him or others like him that "permaculture"
> is now
> > celebrated as a US army reserve "hearts and
> minds"
> > counterinsurgency/sustainment technique
>
> I have to admit that this point is hard to disagree
> with. Permaculture
> was perhaps better off when it was seen as a
> politically neutral Australian
> land and people care system being used in many
> countries with widely
> different governmental systems, from Cuba to the US.
>
> Although I'm very sympathetic to Scott's and others'
> eagerness to spread
> permaculture far and wide, I must conclude that it was a
> mistake for world
> permaculture to get involved with the first-world occupying
> army in a third
> world country, however eager the recruits were to learn
> about permaculture.
>
>
> Corporations have but one motive: profit. Armies likewise
> have but one
> motive: to use force or other more subtle enforcement
> methods to vanquish
> enemies. Their aims and even techniques may appear to
> be beneficient, but we
> must not be naive. And even if we view some military
> as "good guys," how
> does permaculture make the distinction on a global level
> without politicizing
> itself?
>
> Permaculture is an exciting new profession and deserves to
> flourish
> independent of destructive entanglements. I have seen
> similar problems happen in
> my own field of mental health: psychologists who got
> involved with the
> military developed torture techniques for the CIA and
> were, alas, actively
> involved at Abu Ghraib. I realize we haven't done
> anything like this yet --
> but caution is needed. The "psychology in the
> military" issue has split the
> American Psychological Association into warring factions
> for years, some
> supporting those involved with the military and
> others against.
>
> In just this short dialogue I see the beginnings of similar
> problems in
> permaculture unless some clear ethical guidelines are laid
> down to prevent
> permaculture from being used by the military and various
> governments for their
> own purposes. Psychiatrists, by the way, avoided the
> problems faced by the
> psychologists because they take a Hippocratic oath that
> prevents them from
> doing some of the unfortunate things a few
> psychologists have done.
>
> Linda Buzzell-Saltzman
>
>
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