permaculture

[Josh <serjosh@gmail.com>]

This is an interesting debate and I do see some points on both sides.
It is a full time job to grow all your own food, anyone who has had a
garden and tries to live off of it for more than a few days knows
this.  I love being outside planting, weeding, digging, etc.  But I
often ask myself if I would love it so much if I had to do it everyday
from dawn to dusk like farmers do.

Is this reason to not make every effort to be as self sufficient as
possible?  I can't help but feel Toby's comments are somewhat
defeatist.  Yes there will always be some need for interactions with
others.  One of the main reasons Homo sapiens have advanced so far is
because of specialization.  No one person can know everything.  There
may be an issue of semantics here but to me being self sufficient
doesn't mean you have to be an isolationist.  If you have extra crops
and barter them for a tool you need, is that not still self
sufficient?  I suppose by it's definition it's not, however, I would
say it is.  Is it self reliance or self sufficiency we should be
striving for?  Honestly I don't care I just want to be able to support
myself and my family as much as possible without outside inputs.
Saying we shouldn't strive for that, to me, is not permaculture.


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Joan Huyser-Honig <joan@hhcreatives.com> 
wrote:
> Lawrence,
>
> I've been reading these exchanges with Toby and am impressed with your
> diplomatic responses and non-defensiveness.
>
> All the best,
> Joan
>
> Joan Huyser-Honig
> Huyser-Honig Creative Services
> 1016 Oakdale Street SE
> Grand Rapids, MI  49507
>
> Telling Your Stories, Advancing Your Cause
>
> Phone: (616) 241-0931 x11
> Fax: (616) 241-1500
> joan@hhcreatives.com
> www.hhcreatives.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence F.
> London, Jr.
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:20 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] How Much Land Does It Take To Become Food
> Self-Reliant
>
> Richard Archer wrote:
>> At 11:50 PM -0400 12/5/10, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> If it becomes a popular idea for everyone to try and become food
>>> self-sufficient in a bioregion then, with urban and rural farms
>>> involved, trying to meet the needs of a limited number of customers or
>>> coop members only in their immediate locale, then you just might be able
>>> to have enough cereals, nuts, fruits, herbs to go around with the rest
>>> of the growers supplying vegetables or other services in barter or for
>>> sale but through their immediate network.
>>
>> Lawrence,
>>
>> I think you should go back and read Toby's essay again.
>> You're railing against it, yet in your two responses
>> you have made several points supporting his conclusion.
>>
>> Just above for example you've made the point that in order
>> to be self-sufficient in food you need a community with
>> different people specialising in different areas and
>> trading with each other.
>>
>> Which is exactly the point Toby is making.
>> You can't do it alone, you need community.
>>
>> Permaculture is all about networks and interactions.
>
> Amen Richard, thanks for reminding me and apologies to Toby!
>
> It IS all about networking.
> I just meant closer, better organized and dedicated networks
> participating in achieving local food self-sufficiency and increasing
> the bounty ofered by local foodsheds. It affects everyone.
>
> ...:LL
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> More information:
> http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com
> permaculture forums  http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> And: http://www.richsoil.com
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/12/10
> 14:26:00
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> More information:
> http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com
> permaculture forums  http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums
> And: http://www.richsoil.com
>