permaculture

[ed sarten <esarten@yahoo.com>]

Thankyou all for your information on this site.I have learned much,but I must 
go on independently. As with most organizations, in time it becomes something 
it was never intended to be.Im tired of all the debates and an in box full of 
them.Many of the discussions arent relevant to me considering where I live in 
Alaska.My bioregion is rarely discussed or even understood in the big picture 
of permaculture any way.If Any body from the extreme north wants to talk 
permaculture with me  contact Ed Sarten, Ruby,Ak.99768  esarten@yahoo.com 
,Adios and Ahna Basee! Quoyana!


________________________________
From: Lee Flier <leeflier@comcast.net>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, December 13, 2009 5:05:10 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] OT Re:  the gardener's shadow falls both ways

fdnokes@hotmail.com wrote:
> The point is not where the message comes from, but what the message is...
>  

I disagree.  I think if the source of the message is someone that the 
reader doesn't feel is trustworthy or credible, the message suffers, 
even if it's a good message.  It won't reach who it's intended to reach.

> (If you required that I think of myself as a body, then I do not qualify 
> for 
> this list!
I don't "require" anything.  I don't really think of myself as a body, 
either, and I'd wager our views are probably not too far apart in many 
respects, though we may differ in the way we express or manifest those 
views.

However, nothing I would ever teach others with regard to permaculture 
would require that they believe, or  have to put up with listening to, 
any of that.  And fortunately, nothing about permaculture requires that, 
nor are they mutually exclusive.  And it's extremely rare that I feel 
constrained by not discussing my spiritual beliefs in a permaculture 
setting.
> I understand your feelings about newly joined people...
> However, I have concerns about the loss of enrichment, meaning and 
> aliveness 
> for those currently present.
> The loss of life to the list.
> Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
>  
Again, I disagree and I think this is my entire point in this 
discussion.  I think that simply by observing what happens in the world 
through the particular lens of permaculture principles, one does 
naturally find patterns and have experiences that are filled with 
meaning and aliveness and richness, regardless of what deities one does 
or doesn't believe in.  The world is filled with enough miracles to go 
around, that can be shared by everyone.  By each of us focusing on our 
own brand of miracles, we miss out on that, as well as leave a lot of 
people out.
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Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Permaculture TV - Permaculture Meeting Monday
        1pm Klimaforum09
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Permaculture.TV free video cooperative <permaculturecoop@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM
Subject: Permaculture TV - Permaculture Meeting Monday 1pm Klimaforum09
To: permaculturecoop@gmail.com


   Permaculture TV - Permaculture Meeting Monday 1pm
Klimaforum09<http://permaculture.tv>
 <http://fusion.google.com/add?source=3Datgs&feedurl=3Dhttp://feeds.feedbur=
ner.com/permaculture/EHmn>
------------------------------

   - Permaculture Meeting Monday 1pm Klimaforum09 <#12589da5e03dcabc_1>
   - Chilling effect of pre-crime in Copenhagen - Preventative Arrests by
   Danish police <#12589da5e03dcabc_2>
   - Climate Scoreboard: Get it while it=92s HOT. <#12589da5e03dcabc_3>

  Permaculture Meeting Monday 1pm
Klimaforum09<http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/permaculture/EHmn/~3/fAZ9T-pZPY=
8/?utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Demail>

Posted: 13 Dec 2009 10:49 AM PST

A meeting for permaculture international planning has been organised by Ton=
y
Andersen. Meet at the Permakultur Denmark stand at 12.30.

*The workshop will discuss the 10 000 Trees Strategy and the future of
International Permaculture Networks. *

[image: Denmark Permakultur]

Chilling effect of pre-crime in Copenhagen - Preventative Arrests by Danish
police<http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/permaculture/EHmn/~3/ZrkOPTf6mZU/?utm=
_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Demail>

Posted: 13 Dec 2009 02:36 AM PST

*As seen in this video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DimrV5ycm7fc>,
yesterday, Danish police used what many pereceived, as oppressive and
violent tactics, against peaceful protestors, doing preventative arrests,
the largest arrests in Danish history of close to 1000 activists.*

*Later outside Bella a Greenpeace bloc was also detained. *

Detainees where forced to sit for over 5 hours, without movement or access
to toilets, at the side of the road, in sub-zero Copenhagen conditions.
Close to 1000 often random protestors where detained and processed in such =
a
fashion. Activists consider these police tactics to be a kind of
state-terrorism against activists, creating a =93chilling effect=94.

 Video: UK Indymedia <http://www.youtube.com/user/indynessuno>

Source: AP

The term =93precrime=94 refers to events and motives before an offense has =
been
committed. In pop culture, the word =93precrime=94 was popularized by the 2=
002
movie Minority Report (film) which was adapted from Sci Fi writings of
author Philip K. Dick (1956 short story =93The Minority Report=94), as well=
 as
other sources: in the film the plot concerns determining whether or not
someone is planning to commit a crime. The term precrime has also been used
in relation to techniques for so-called =93profiling=94 to determine likeli=
hood
of futures offenses being committed.

Source: The Minority Report <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report

Det uppt=E4cks att ett antal ungdomar med besynnerliga hj=E4rnskador, blivi=
t
synska och i och med det kan f=F6ruts=E4ga h=E4ndelser. Detta p=E5visas gen=
om att
man f=E5r veta att deras mammor tagit droger under graviditeten. N=E5gra av=
 dem
visar sig kunna f=F6ruts=E4ga mord i staden Washington med otrolig, ja ofel=
bar
precision. Man beslutar sig f=F6r att utnyttja detta fenomen - och med det
f=F6rhindra morden och arrestera m=F6rdarna, innan morden =E4ger rum. F=F6r=
 detta
inr=E4ttas =93Pre-Crime=94-gruppen inom polisen, och en av agenterna =E4r J=
ohn
Anderton (Tom Cruise). Detta fungerar utm=E4rkt och antalet mord g=E5r ner =
mot
noll. Men en dag f=F6ruts=E4ger man ett mord beg=E5nget av John Anderton. H=
an
beslutar sig fly och bevisa sin oskuld. Han s=F6ker upp den som fr=E5n b=F6=
rjan
skapade =93Pre-Crime=94 och s=F6ker hj=E4lp om han ska l=F6sa sitt dilemma.=
 Men han
f=E5r inga direkta svar och kidnappar d=E4rf=F6r en av de synska.

Precrime from movie The Minority Report

Climate Scoreboard: Get it while it=92s
HOT.<http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/permaculture/EHmn/~3/Qjum98cCOh4/?utm_s=
ource=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Demail>

Posted: 13 Dec 2009 02:06 AM PST

*Climate Scoreboard was developed at the Sustainability
Institute<http://www.sustainer.org/>,
which houses Climate Interactive. <http://climateinteractive.org/> What you
see below is the widget itself. Scroll down to watch the video that explain=
s
the Climate Scoreboard <http://www.climatescoreboard.org>.*

You can see how this can be helpful to evaluate what global mean
temperatures will result from all of the hot air coming out of Copenhagen.

*Watch the Climate Scoreboard video:*

The Climate Scoreboard Video <http://vimeo.com/7901109> from Climate
Interactive <http://vimeo.com/user2239247> on Vimeo <http://vimeo.com>.

Sustainability Institute today launched the Climate Scoreboard, an online
tool that allows the public, journalists and other interested parties to
track progress in the ongoing negotiations to produce an international
climate treaty. The Scoreboard allows users to check, on a daily basis,
whether proposals in the treaty process commit countries to enough
greenhouse gas emissions reductions to achieve widely expressed goals, such
as limiting future warming to 1.5 to 2.0=B0C (2.7=B0 to 3.6=B0F) above
pre-industrial temperatures.

The Climate Scoreboard results are delivered as a widget that can be
embedded in media reports, blogs, websites, and Facebook.

The Scoreboard is based on the C-ROADS (Climate Rapid Overview and Decision
Support) computer simulation, which is carefully calibrated to the
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Fourth Assessment Report results.
C-ROADS emerged from research at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology
and allows users to input mitigation proposals for China, India, the US, th=
e
European Union, and other nations and regions. It then simulates these
emissions=92 impacts on greenhouse gas concentrations, temperature change,
per-capita emissions, cumulative emissions, sea level rise and other
indicators.

Contact:
Dr. Elizabeth Sawin, Climate Interactive Program, Sustainability Institute
bethsawin@sustainer.org =97 www.climateinteractive.org
twitter.com/climateinteract
+1-802-436-1277 X 103 (office) +1-603-715-0116 (mobile)

Climate Scoreboard Press Release &
Kit<http://climateinteractive.org/scoreboard/download-and-info/press-releas=
e-and-press-kit/Climate%20Scoreboard%20press%20release%202%20Dec%2009.doc/v=
iew>

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--=20
Nicholas Roberts & Kirstie Stramler

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Danish 36 96 49 02

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