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  • From: <fdnokes@hotmail.com>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] OT Re: the gardener's shadow falls both ways
  • Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 16:20:59 -0800

The point is not where the message comes from, but what the message is...

(If you required that I think of myself as a body, then I do not qualify for this list! If we do not allow the diversity to speak up without feeling that it is all representative of who we all are, then that is a form of censorship, is it not?)

I understand your feelings about newly joined people...
However, I have concerns about the loss of enrichment, meaning and aliveness for those currently present.
The loss of life to the list.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
I appreciate LL's description of your long valued service to this list, and it's life without me around...

Hopefully any confusions can be cleared up. Life has a way of providing what is needed.
(I'm curious how you'll feel about that last statement)

I guess we're getting to the part where it's interesting to trip over each other's belief systems.
No worries.

It's all 'grist for the mill'



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lee Flier" <leeflier@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:14 PM
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] OT Re: the gardener's shadow falls both ways

fdnokes@hotmail.com wrote:
The word 'magical' should not offend you, as it relates only to the
'quality' of being.

It doesn't offend me. I don't think you read my post too carefully.
The word "magical" is not what I complained about at all.

To work with
land and with plants is to work with the mystery of life at some of its
deepest levels.
I agree with this, as I've already said several times in this
discussion. What I don't agree with is recommending a book that
requires belief in a discorporate being who is channeled through someone
else's body.

As to science, those that travel deeply into fields of science are witness
to the deepening of the mystery, not the stripping of life from it.


Again, we agree. But that doesn't mean a scientist would read a Seth
book and take it seriously.
So, before you imply censorship, think again. Some of your ideas are
getting rather 'crusty' and to give yourself license to censor, and limit,
will only make them more so.
I'm not trying to "censor" anything. If you don't see the reasoning
behind what I'm saying, then by all means carry on however you wish.

I was not aware that anyone was playing 'teacher' on this list, but thought
that everyone was here for their own purposes. If that purpose is merely to
gather students, I would not say that would be a list that I would feel as
comfortable in as one where everyone felt that had something to gain from
some of the posts, and knew which ones they could ignore.

I don't think it's so much that anyone's "playing teacher" as that
sometimes we can lose sight of the fact that there are folks joining
(who may not participate much if at all) who are entirely new to
permaculture, and I happen to feel it's important to consider these
folks. Sure, different people have different purposes in being here, me
included. But in any public forum I do try to consider the impact of my
words on others who may not be part of the discussion. You may or may
not feel the same way, but you can expect my responses to be in
consideration of those folks.

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