permaculture

[Rick Valley <bamboogrove@cmug.com>]

> However, as in the mountains of North-eastern Mexico,
> where they didn't exclude the deer they had 100% mortality of the trees they
> were trying to establish.
Or pigs, in the case of N. Cali, or South Is. NZ. A good case for carnivory,
I say. Or Jaguars. 
> Personally, I think it's high time we got away from
> burning the land.
At least all the land. Wouldn't want to extinguish the pyrophiles now would
we?
 
> I'm all for a cooler moister
> climate, but in order to get us there we might have to begin with the plants
> that are better suited for our climate today - the whole C3 vs. C4 issue.
Fa true, mon!

> So a key factor also is what needs to be there now?  What is going to help
> stabilize the atmosphere and rehumidify the interior of the continent?  Most
> of these trees with seratinous (sp?) cones (seeds that are activated by
> fire) have likely either adapted to man using fire in the forest or escaped
> their original fire-frequent niches.  Should such fire adapted plants be
> used in "restoration"?
I'd guess, some of the time.

>>> Beaver any place there's water.  <<
> 
> I really like your point about beaver.  Our neighbor had beaver jamming up
> his creek and darned if he wasn't in there pulling the felled trees out to
> prevent water from backing up and killing his willow and cotton wood trees
> along the creek.
> I would be honored if the little guys came over here and constructed a dam.

Why not encourage them? How about you plant them some food, make 'em a
temporary lodge or two, maybe make a little place where the water gurgles
(constrict the flow- gets 'em excited!) and see what happens? You can always
put a pipe in first, capped at the bottom end and perf at the top: may prove
useful to have a tap in place.
 
> Aye, Mollison says we should be grateful that the Spanish brought horses
> back to the Americas when they did.  Apparently, there are lots of trees
> who's seeds like to pass through the gut of horses.
Osage Orange for one, perhaps. It has been proposed that eliminating burros
from the Grand Canyon is a dumb waste of time if you're considering
restoring Cali Condors to the park too.
> 
>>> and jaguars should be allowed to continue re-establishing their range.
> And maybe elephants.  <<
> 
> Whew, now you're talking!  Wouldn't that be something.
Nice way to turn that grassland/mesquite either/or to a shifting mosaic, eh?

I again recommend *The Ghosts of Evolution* and *The Eternal Frontier* to
anyone wrestling with these ideas.

Bring 'em back alive!
-Rick