Healthy soil and sustainable growing

["Andeanfx" <andeanfx@midrivers.com>]

I think it is well beyond the point of demand.  Ten years a go I presented 
the local courthouse personnel with a cite for one of their own "laws" and 
was told "I don't care what you have, we have the guns and the keys to the 
jail cells".  I still cannot believe I did not pack up and leave the country 
on the spot.  Oh, That's right, I was in a very secure place with room and 
board for demanding First Amendment rights, couldn't leave.


"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at 
all."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pbunch@cox.net>
To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" 
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets


> I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to do. I 
> think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state 
> economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters. This is 
> complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.
>
> "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. Show 
> me
> the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person 
> and I
> will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --  
> Frederick
> Douglass
>
>
>
> ---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
> > If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try not to 
> > plow the same ground. You mention building community between people and 
> > their governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The powers that 
> > be, the money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not about to 
> > turn it all over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly). If we 
> > learn anything from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth 
> > fights any change that limits or undoes their control of property and 
> > resources and people. Here's the man who said it best, before the 
> > disastrous Civil War:
> >    "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. 
> > Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a 
> > person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by these 
> > people." -- Frederick Douglass
> >
> > Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how land and 
> > water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all land and 
> > more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except federal 
> > land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And 
> > transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways? 
> > Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes? Corporations. 
> > Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel 
> > industry, the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who 
> > profits? Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire manufacturing 
> > base and banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits? 
> > Corporations. Who controls the most powerful military machine the world 
> > has ever seen with hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our government. 
> > Who pays for it? We do. Who profits? Corporations.
> >
> > Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to give up 
> > their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so 
> > sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up control of 
> > their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil fuels, 
> > medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this 
> > country? So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that we can 
> > control for our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> >
> > Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to go 1% of 
> > the distance. They still have to operate within the financial system that 
> > covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work 
> > (usually for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through banks. 
> > They must pay the corporate power grid or pay financial corporations to 
> > get solar or wind power. And they grow part of their own food. When it's 
> > fair weather. Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar 
> > setup that'll light one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining. Oops, not 
> > at night! No, it's not that easy. We have to let Nature take its course 
> > and try to adapt as we can.
> >
> > Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker 
> > hoses from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to get the 
> > old van towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take half a day 
> > to get there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
> >
> > paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> >
> >
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >
> > On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> >
> > >Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent source
> > >material backing your statement.
> > >Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community between
> > >people and their governments in order for people to recover their power
> > >to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post Petroleum
> > >social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil fuel
> > >industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years.  There's also
> > >a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob Hopkins'
> > >blog site.  Transition is my work, when my health allows it, growing a
> > >just, sustainable world.
> > >Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/.  I'm reading it again, too.  Great 
> > >book!
> > >
> > >Smiles.
> > >Tommy
> > >
> > >On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> > >> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization. Isolated
> > >> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> > >> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the future.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
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