Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[<pbunch@cox.net>]

As I said, when laws are wrong they need to be challanged.

---- John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote: 
> 
> You might be talking about Ireland. It is forbidden to milk without license 
> and quotum, you can not have more than 3 hens without a licence (and the 
> cost is the same for ten thousand or for three) and of course you can not 
> kill any meat for yourself. Chicken for instance can only legally be killed 
> in an abattoir near Dublin a 7 hour drive away. And there is no chance of 
> getting your own chicken back either. Vegetables are still ok more or less 
> but the use of compost or mulch is frowned upon. It is forbidden to have a 
> compost heap in the months of November-December. And so on.
> john
> 
> > Some time ago, yes; now, could be; future (possibly not to distant), all
> > bets are off.  When it comes down to being a criminal for growing "your 
> > own
> > food" on "your own land" in a newly 'de'developed third world country I
> > think I would put my money on or in an existing third world country that
> > already knows how to live that way and is happy doing it.
> >
> >
> > "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at
> > all."
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: <paul@oneseedling.com>
> > To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
> > <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
> >
> >
> >>
> >> My opinion of the us is not real high, however, having lived in
> >> several foreign cointries i can say that here is way better than there.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 4:29 PM, "Andeanfx" <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think it is well beyond the point of demand.  Ten years a go I
> >>> presented
> >>> the local courthouse personnel with a cite for one of their own
> >>> "laws" and
> >>> was told "I don't care what you have, we have the guns and the keys
> >>> to the
> >>> jail cells".  I still cannot believe I did not pack up and leave the
> >>> country
> >>> on the spot.  Oh, That's right, I was in a very secure place with
> >>> room and
> >>> board for demanding First Amendment rights, couldn't leave.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything
> >>> at
> >>> all."
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: <pbunch@cox.net>
> >>> To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
> >>> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:26 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to
> >>>> do. I
> >>>> think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state
> >>>> economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters.
> >>>> This is
> >>>> complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never
> >>>> will. Show
> >>>> me
> >>>> the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a
> >>>> person
> >>>> and I
> >>>> will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --
> >>>> Frederick
> >>>> Douglass
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try
> >>>>> not to
> >>>>> plow the same ground. You mention building community between
> >>>>> people and
> >>>>> their governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The
> >>>>> powers that
> >>>>> be, the money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not
> >>>>> about to
> >>>>> turn it all over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly).
> >>>>> If we
> >>>>> learn anything from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth
> >>>>> fights any change that limits or undoes their control of property
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> resources and people. Here's the man who said it best, before the
> >>>>> disastrous Civil War:
> >>>>>   "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never
> >>>>> will.
> >>>>> Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited
> >>>>> upon a
> >>>>> person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by
> >>>>> these
> >>>>> people." -- Frederick Douglass
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how
> >>>>> land and
> >>>>> water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all
> >>>>> land and
> >>>>> more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except
> >>>>> federal
> >>>>> land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And
> >>>>> transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways?
> >>>>> Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes?
> >>>>> Corporations.
> >>>>> Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel
> >>>>> industry, the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who
> >>>>> profits? Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire
> >>>>> manufacturing
> >>>>> base and banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits?
> >>>>> Corporations. Who controls the most powerful military machine the
> >>>>> world
> >>>>> has ever seen with hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our
> >>>>> government.
> >>>>> Who pays for it? We do. Who profits? Corporations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to
> >>>>> give up
> >>>>> their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so
> >>>>> sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up
> >>>>> control of
> >>>>> their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil
> >>>>> fuels,
> >>>>> medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this
> >>>>> country? So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that
> >>>>> we can
> >>>>> control for our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to
> >>>>> go 1% of
> >>>>> the distance. They still have to operate within the financial
> >>>>> system that
> >>>>> covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work
> >>>>> (usually for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through
> >>>>> banks.
> >>>>> They must pay the corporate power grid or pay financial
> >>>>> corporations to
> >>>>> get solar or wind power. And they grow part of their own food.
> >>>>> When it's
> >>>>> fair weather. Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar
> >>>>> setup that'll light one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining.
> >>>>> Oops, not
> >>>>> at night! No, it's not that easy. We have to let Nature take its
> >>>>> course
> >>>>> and try to adapt as we can.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker
> >>>>> hoses from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to
> >>>>> get the
> >>>>> old van towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take
> >>>>> half a day
> >>>>> to get there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent
> >>>>>> source
> >>>>>> material backing your statement.
> >>>>>> Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community
> >>>>>> between
> >>>>>> people and their governments in order for people to recover their
> >>>>>> power
> >>>>>> to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post
> >>>>>> Petroleum
> >>>>>> social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil
> >>>>>> fuel
> >>>>>> industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years.
> >>>>>> There's also
> >>>>>> a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob
> >>>>>> Hopkins'
> >>>>>> blog site.  Transition is my work, when my health allows it,
> >>>>>> growing a
> >>>>>> just, sustainable world.
> >>>>>> Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/.  I'm reading it again, too.  Great
> >>>>>> book!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Smiles.
> >>>>>> Tommy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization.
> >>>>>>> Isolated
> >>>>>>> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> >>>>>>> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the
> >>>>>>> future.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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