Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[<pbunch@cox.net>]

I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to do. I 
think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state 
economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters. This is 
complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.

 "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. Show me 
the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person and I 
will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." -- 
Frederick 
Douglass 



---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote: 
> 
> If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try not to plow 
> the same ground. You mention building community between people and their 
> governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The powers that be, the 
> money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not about to turn it all 
> over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly). If we learn anything 
> from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth fights any change that 
> limits or undoes their control of property and resources and people. Here's 
> the man who said it best, before the disastrous Civil War:
>    "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. 
> Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a 
> person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by these 
> people." -- Frederick Douglass
> 
> Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how land and 
> water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all land and 
> more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except federal 
> land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And 
> transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways? 
> Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes? Corporations. 
> Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel industry, 
> the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who profits? 
> Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire manufacturing base and 
> banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits? Corporations. Who 
> controls the most powerful military machine the world has ever seen with 
> hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our government. Who pays for it? We 
> do. Who profits? Corporations. 
> 
> Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to give up 
> their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so 
> sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up control of 
> their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil fuels, 
> medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this country? 
> So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that we can control for 
> our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> 
> Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to go 1% of 
> the distance. They still have to operate within the financial system that 
> covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work (usually 
> for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through banks. They must 
> pay the corporate power grid or pay financial corporations to get solar or 
> wind power. And they grow part of their own food. When it's fair weather. 
> Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar setup that'll light 
> one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining. Oops, not at night! No, it's 
> not that easy. We have to let Nature take its course and try to adapt as we 
> can.
> 
> Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker hoses 
> from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to get the old van 
> towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take half a day to get 
> there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse. 
> 
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> 
> >Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent source 
> >material backing your statement.
> >Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community between 
> >people and their governments in order for people to recover their power 
> >to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post Petroleum 
> >social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil fuel 
> >industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years.  There's also 
> >a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob Hopkins' 
> >blog site.  Transition is my work, when my health allows it, growing a 
> >just, sustainable world.
> >Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/.  I'm reading it again, too.  Great book!
> >
> >Smiles.
> >Tommy
> >
> >On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> >> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization. Isolated
> >> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> >> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the future.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net>  wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>>      
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