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  • From: <pbunch@cox.net>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
  • Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:26:20 -0700

I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to do. I
think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state
economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters. This is
complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.

"Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. Show me
the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person and I
will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --
Frederick
Douglass



---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
>
> If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try not to plow
> the same ground. You mention building community between people and their
> governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The powers that be, the
> money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not about to turn it all
> over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly). If we learn anything
> from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth fights any change that
> limits or undoes their control of property and resources and people. Here's
> the man who said it best, before the disastrous Civil War:
> "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will.
> Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a
> person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by these
> people." -- Frederick Douglass
>
> Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how land and
> water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all land and
> more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except federal
> land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And
> transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways?
> Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes? Corporations.
> Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel industry,
> the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who profits?
> Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire manufacturing base and
> banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits? Corporations. Who
> controls the most powerful military machine the world has ever seen with
> hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our government. Who pays for it? We
> do. Who profits? Corporations.
>
> Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to give up
> their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so
> sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up control of
> their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil fuels,
> medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this country?
> So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that we can control for
> our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
>
> Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to go 1% of
> the distance. They still have to operate within the financial system that
> covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work (usually
> for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through banks. They must
> pay the corporate power grid or pay financial corporations to get solar or
> wind power. And they grow part of their own food. When it's fair weather.
> Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar setup that'll light
> one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining. Oops, not at night! No, it's
> not that easy. We have to let Nature take its course and try to adapt as we
> can.
>
> Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker hoses
> from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to get the old van
> towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take half a day to get
> there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
>
> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
>
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
>
> >Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent source
> >material backing your statement.
> >Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community between
> >people and their governments in order for people to recover their power
> >to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post Petroleum
> >social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil fuel
> >industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years. There's also
> >a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob Hopkins'
> >blog site. Transition is my work, when my health allows it, growing a
> >just, sustainable world.
> >Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/. I'm reading it again, too. Great book!
> >
> >Smiles.
> >Tommy
> >
> >On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> >> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization. Isolated
> >> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> >> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the future.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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>
>
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