Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[paul@oneseedling.com]

My opinion of the us is not real high, however, having lived in  
several foreign cointries i can say that here is way better than there.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 23, 2010, at 4:29 PM, "Andeanfx" <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote:

> I think it is well beyond the point of demand.  Ten years a go I  
> presented
> the local courthouse personnel with a cite for one of their own  
> "laws" and
> was told "I don't care what you have, we have the guns and the keys  
> to the
> jail cells".  I still cannot believe I did not pack up and leave the  
> country
> on the spot.  Oh, That's right, I was in a very secure place with  
> room and
> board for demanding First Amendment rights, couldn't leave.
>
>
> "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything  
> at
> all."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pbunch@cox.net>
> To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
>
>
> > I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to  
> > do. I
> > think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state
> > economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters.  
> > This is
> > complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.
> >
> > "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never  
> > will. Show
> > me
> > the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a  
> > person
> > and I
> > will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --
> > Frederick
> > Douglass
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
> > > If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try  
> > > not to
> > > plow the same ground. You mention building community between  
> > > people and
> > > their governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The  
> > > powers that
> > > be, the money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not  
> > > about to
> > > turn it all over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly).  
> > > If we
> > > learn anything from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth
> > > fights any change that limits or undoes their control of property  
> > > and
> > > resources and people. Here's the man who said it best, before the
> > > disastrous Civil War:
> > >   "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never  
> > > will.
> > > Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited  
> > > upon a
> > > person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by  
> > > these
> > > people." -- Frederick Douglass
> > >
> > > Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how  
> > > land and
> > > water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all  
> > > land and
> > > more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except  
> > > federal
> > > land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And
> > > transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways?
> > > Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes?  
> > > Corporations.
> > > Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel
> > > industry, the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who
> > > profits? Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire  
> > > manufacturing
> > > base and banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits?
> > > Corporations. Who controls the most powerful military machine the  
> > > world
> > > has ever seen with hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our  
> > > government.
> > > Who pays for it? We do. Who profits? Corporations.
> > >
> > > Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to  
> > > give up
> > > their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so
> > > sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up  
> > > control of
> > > their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil  
> > > fuels,
> > > medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this
> > > country? So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that  
> > > we can
> > > control for our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> > >
> > > Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to  
> > > go 1% of
> > > the distance. They still have to operate within the financial  
> > > system that
> > > covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work
> > > (usually for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through  
> > > banks.
> > > They must pay the corporate power grid or pay financial  
> > > corporations to
> > > get solar or wind power. And they grow part of their own food.  
> > > When it's
> > > fair weather. Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar
> > > setup that'll light one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining.  
> > > Oops, not
> > > at night! No, it's not that easy. We have to let Nature take its  
> > > course
> > > and try to adapt as we can.
> > >
> > > Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker
> > > hoses from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to  
> > > get the
> > > old van towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take  
> > > half a day
> > > to get there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
> > >
> > > paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> > >
> > >
> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >
> > > On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent  
> > > > source
> > > > material backing your statement.
> > > > Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community  
> > > > between
> > > > people and their governments in order for people to recover their  
> > > > power
> > > > to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post  
> > > > Petroleum
> > > > social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil  
> > > > fuel
> > > > industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years.   
> > > > There's also
> > > > a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob  
> > > > Hopkins'
> > > > blog site.  Transition is my work, when my health allows it,  
> > > > growing a
> > > > just, sustainable world.
> > > > Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/.  I'm reading it again, too.  Great
> > > > book!
> > > >
> > > > Smiles.
> > > > Tommy
> > > >
> > > > On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> > > > > Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization.  
> > > > > Isolated
> > > > > groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> > > > > defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the  
> > > > > future.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net>  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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