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  • From: <pbunch@cox.net>
  • To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
  • Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 16:28:36 -0700

Where was that?

---- Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote:
> I think it is well beyond the point of demand. Ten years a go I presented
> the local courthouse personnel with a cite for one of their own "laws" and
> was told "I don't care what you have, we have the guns and the keys to the
> jail cells". I still cannot believe I did not pack up and leave the
> country
> on the spot. Oh, That's right, I was in a very secure place with room and
> board for demanding First Amendment rights, couldn't leave.
>
>
> "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at
> all."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <pbunch@cox.net>
> To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing"
> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
>
>
> >I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to do. I
> >think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state
> >economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters. This is
> >complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.
> >
> > "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. Show
> > me
> > the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person
> > and I
> > will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --
> > Frederick
> > Douglass
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try not to
> >> plow the same ground. You mention building community between people and
> >> their governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The powers that
> >> be, the money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not about to
> >> turn it all over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly). If we
> >> learn anything from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth
> >> fights any change that limits or undoes their control of property and
> >> resources and people. Here's the man who said it best, before the
> >> disastrous Civil War:
> >> "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will.
> >> Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a
> >> person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by these
> >> people." -- Frederick Douglass
> >>
> >> Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how land and
> >> water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all land and
> >> more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except federal
> >> land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And
> >> transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways?
> >> Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes? Corporations.
> >> Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel
> >> industry, the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who
> >> profits? Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire manufacturing
> >> base and banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits?
> >> Corporations. Who controls the most powerful military machine the world
> >> has ever seen with hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our government.
> >> Who pays for it? We do. Who profits? Corporations.
> >>
> >> Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to give up
> >> their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so
> >> sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up control of
> >> their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil
> >> fuels,
> >> medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this
> >> country? So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that we can
> >> control for our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> >>
> >> Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to go 1%
> >> of
> >> the distance. They still have to operate within the financial system
> >> that
> >> covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work
> >> (usually for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through
> >> banks.
> >> They must pay the corporate power grid or pay financial corporations to
> >> get solar or wind power. And they grow part of their own food. When it's
> >> fair weather. Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar
> >> setup that'll light one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining. Oops,
> >> not
> >> at night! No, it's not that easy. We have to let Nature take its course
> >> and try to adapt as we can.
> >>
> >> Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker
> >> hoses from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to get the
> >> old van towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take half a
> >> day
> >> to get there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
> >>
> >> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> >>
> >>
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> >>
> >> On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> >>
> >> >Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent source
> >> >material backing your statement.
> >> >Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community between
> >> >people and their governments in order for people to recover their power
> >> >to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post Petroleum
> >> >social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil fuel
> >> >industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years. There's also
> >> >a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob Hopkins'
> >> >blog site. Transition is my work, when my health allows it, growing a
> >> >just, sustainable world.
> >> >Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/. I'm reading it again, too. Great
> >> >book!
> >> >
> >> >Smiles.
> >> >Tommy
> >> >
> >> >On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> >> >> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization. Isolated
> >> >> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> >> >> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the future.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> Livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/livingontheland
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >_______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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