Healthy soil and sustainable growing

[<pbunch@cox.net>]

Where was that?

---- Andeanfx <andeanfx@midrivers.com> wrote: 
> I think it is well beyond the point of demand.  Ten years a go I presented 
> the local courthouse personnel with a cite for one of their own "laws" and 
> was told "I don't care what you have, we have the guns and the keys to the 
> jail cells".  I still cannot believe I did not pack up and leave the 
> country 
> on the spot.  Oh, That's right, I was in a very secure place with room and 
> board for demanding First Amendment rights, couldn't leave.
> 
> 
> "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at 
> all."
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <pbunch@cox.net>
> To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" 
> <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] More on Low Dairy and Meat Diets
> 
> 
> >I like the quote and think it points the way toward what we need to do. I 
> >think we need to demand the implementation of national steady state 
> >economies. We need to educate and motivate a majority of voters. This is 
> >complex and will require a lot of commitment and work.
> >
> > "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. Show 
> > me
> > the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a person 
> > and I
> > will show you the exact amount of words endured by these people." --  
> > Frederick
> > Douglass
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- Tradingpost <tradingpost@lobo.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you've seen my previous comments on transition then I'll try not to 
> >> plow the same ground. You mention building community between people and 
> >> their governments. This angle on transition seems naive. The powers that 
> >> be, the money and ownership by the elite 1% in the US, is not about to 
> >> turn it all over to the unwashed masses (including yours truly). If we 
> >> learn anything from history it's that the hierarchy of great wealth 
> >> fights any change that limits or undoes their control of property and 
> >> resources and people. Here's the man who said it best, before the 
> >> disastrous Civil War:
> >>    "Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and never will. 
> >> Show me the exact amount of wrong and injustices that are visited upon a 
> >> person and I will show you the exact amount of words endured by these 
> >> people." -- Frederick Douglass
> >>
> >> Consider the land itself, the soil and water. Who controls how land and 
> >> water are used, what they produce, and who profits? Almost all land and 
> >> more and more of the water is corporate owned for profit (except federal 
> >> land mosly in the West, which is also largely used for profit). And 
> >> transportation - who builds the rails, roads, airports, freeways? 
> >> Government. Who makes the cars, trucks, trains and planes? Corporations. 
> >> Who profits? Corporations. Who owns the medicine, the fossil fuel 
> >> industry, the solar and wind power manufacturers? All corporate. Who 
> >> profits? Corporations. Who owns and controls the entire manufacturing 
> >> base and banking and credit business? Corporations. Who profits? 
> >> Corporations. Who controls the most powerful military machine the world 
> >> has ever seen with hundreds of bases all over the globe? Our government. 
> >> Who pays for it? We do. Who profits? Corporations.
> >>
> >> Now the question becomes: which part of this system is going to give up 
> >> their legal obligation to stockholders and go out of business so 
> >> sustainability can take over? Which corporations will give up control of 
> >> their lands, water, tollways, trains, planes, cars, trucks, fossil 
> >> fuels, 
> >> medicines, power plants and the entire manufacturing base of this 
> >> country? So what does that leave the rest of us? Very little that we can 
> >> control for our own use to live sustainably as we see fit
> >>
> >> Transition towns and ecovillages mean well. But they have yet to go 1% 
> >> of 
> >> the distance. They still have to operate within the financial system 
> >> that 
> >> covers the country. They mostly drive cars to get to and from work 
> >> (usually for corporations) and finance ecovillage property through 
> >> banks. 
> >> They must pay the corporate power grid or pay financial corporations to 
> >> get solar or wind power. And they grow part of their own food. When it's 
> >> fair weather. Changing light bulbs is a bad joke. So is a $200 solar 
> >> setup that'll light one 45 watt bulb - when the sun is shining. Oops, 
> >> not 
> >> at night! No, it's not that easy. We have to let Nature take its course 
> >> and try to adapt as we can.
> >>
> >> Most of our garden beds are planted now, mostly mulched, with soaker 
> >> hoses from China, sold by OneStop corporation. Today we have to get the 
> >> old van towed to the shop over a tension pulley. It would take half a 
> >> day 
> >> to get there on a horse, but we don't seem to have a horse.
> >>
> >> paul tradingpost@lobo.net
> >>
> >>
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >>
> >> On 6/23/2010 at 12:00 PM Tommy Tolson wrote:
> >>
> >> >Joseph Tainter's /The Collapse of Complex Societies/ is excellent source
> >> >material backing your statement.
> >> >Transition (www.transitiontowns.org) intends to build community between
> >> >people and their governments in order for people to recover their power
> >> >to run their lives as they see fit so they can build the Post Petroleum
> >> >social infrastructure that corporate rule (especially the fossil fuel
> >> >industry) has effectively prevented for the last 40 years.  There's also
> >> >a lot of good information at www.transitionculture.org, Rob Hopkins'
> >> >blog site.  Transition is my work, when my health allows it, growing a
> >> >just, sustainable world.
> >> >Thanks for /Small is Beautiful/.  I'm reading it again, too.  Great 
> >> >book!
> >> >
> >> >Smiles.
> >> >Tommy
> >> >
> >> >On 6/23/10 11:26 AM, paul@oneseedling.com wrote:
> >> >> Thoughout history we have suffered collapse of civlization. Isolated
> >> >> groups of families have survived by banding together for common
> >> >> defence and food related activities. Thus it will be in the future.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 9:32 AM,<pbunch@cox.net>  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
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