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  • From: rayzentz AT aim.com
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Climate-Gate
  • Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:21:49 -0500

on this we agree. This gets back to being good stewards.






Dr. Raymond Zentz

It is better to die a free man, than to live, a slave.



-----Original Message-----
From: Lynda <lurine AT com-pair.net>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sun, Nov 29, 2009 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Climate-Gate


Here's how I see it. We have the regulations in place and they are ignored.
hen laws are passed, there is a long lead time until they become chiseled
n stone. Companies have, in some cases, up to 15 years to do the work to
eet the regulations. They don't do the work and then when the deadline
omes around they cry about the cost. HELLO! If they had done the
pdating, etc. whent he regulations came out, the cost would have been
inimal.
Second, stop corporate welfare and tax breaks for companies who take their
lants off shore. You don't hold a whip over someone's head and then use it
o feed them the carrots. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, if
our kid doesn't do his homework and cheats on a test, do you reward him by
iving him a raise in his allowance?
Louisiana-Pacific had a pulp mill in Humboldt County. It would have cost
hem somewhere around $250,000 to clean up the plant and go dioxin free when
hey were first sued by Surf Riders. They futz, they stalled, they fought
t in court and they eventually lost. Their legal bill was somewhere in the
eighborhood of $10 million dollars and it cost $5 million to build the
ipeline and convert to bleach free pulp. $250,000 vs. $15 million and then
hey cry about what it cost them.
Try tallying up the cost of building new plants and so forth and so on when
ou move your plants off-shore vs. simply updating here in the U.S. WHEN
he regs first came out.
Sorry, the companies are slick AND dirty and the politicians are stupid and
orrupt! I have no sympathy for either! ENFORCE the laws we already have!
ND, the same applies to immigration! Sanctuary cities need to loose ALL
ederal funding! They are breaking the law.
Now, just for the sake of accuracy, Gore doesn't own the company that sells
he energy credits. He owns stock in a company that bought stock in a
ompany that does energy credits. And I've already ranted about cutting
0-90% of the farm subsidies because they don't go to *real* farms but only
o corporate headquarters of agri-business.
Lynda
-"I'm fascinated by the hard line you're drawing over religion -- It gets
sed too much, as an excuse, a fall guy, a weapon, a con. A lot of people,
aybe most, don't mean it except when it suits them." Dallas
---- Original Message -----
rom: <DSanner106 AT aol.com>

Good point, and this is why we do need to add to our regulations on
emissions.
but we need to do so in a more intelligent fashion.
The end result of our efforts, have been to drive manufacturing out of
the
United States and into third world countries that have NO such regulations
and
are polluting at incredible rates. Do we feel better about ourselves if
our
own
hands are not dirty but our neighbors are? Is hiring someone else to
commit
a
murder for you better than doing it yourself? We share the same air and
water with
the rest of the planet and need to look at the bigger picture when we
create our
regulations.

A tiny fraction of the scamulous money we are just handing out willy
nilly
would have re-tooled every auto plant in America to produce cleaner, more
efficient
cars. I doubt we will ever see the money Chrysler got again, and a lesser
amount would
have retooled everyone. At least we would have gotten something lasting
for
our money.
We cannot fool ourselves into thinking any politician has our back on this
issue. Creation
of taxes to address this problem will just lead to more political greed
and
payoffs, but no
actual solution to the problem. We should have put our money into fixing
the problem
rather than relying entirely on the factory owners to absorb the costs. We
have lost millions
of jobs and have not helped the environment one iota.

The top politician, put up as an expert on this topic is Al Gore. Obama
has
stated that he
is his go to guy on these issues. Gore himself still flies around in the
least efficient private jet
in the skies, (you would think after he got the bad press he would have
sold it) bought one
clean car but has never been seen in anything other than SUV's. He accepts
tobacco
subsidies intended for poor farmers, to not grow tobacco on his family
land
(As if he would take
up farming tobacco if the money were cut off) and on that same land
operates a mining
operation with heavy pollution. He just built a massive indoor pool that
draws more energy than
12 houses just to heat it. He says all this is OK though because he buys
"carbon credits" from
a company he owns part of. He shifts money from his left pocket to his
right pocket in other words.
So he can live as wastefully as anyone we know, but preach to us
about how we live. He wants new taxes on us as a punishment for our
wasteful lives, that will
hurt the poor far more than the wealthy. He left office worth less than a
half million dollars and
is worth over 200 million today, just a few years later. Where did the
sudden massive wealth come
from? Not his book, and certainly not his documentary he was supposed to
donate any proceeds from,
so where did he get it? Certainly not from corporations he is promoting
the
agenda of, right? This
is where our trust is placed? This guy will instruct the President? We are
in trouble.
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