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[rayzentz AT aim.com]

I was not talking at all about functionality and purpose toward which a 
particular object might be put.

If I was allergic to potatoes, for instance, your potato would be worthless 
to me, and I would percieve it to have no value to me at all, except in the 
abstract sense that I could feed it to something else, and eat that.

However, that aside, my food storage has value to me, because I percieve it 
to be so. I could die tomorrow, which would make the foods value decidedly 
less to me. <g>

My gun has value to me, because it can provide something... security, food, 
etc. It may have less value to another... say, someone trying to harm one of 
my children. Never, however, do I equate value with importance. The gun 
becomes very important to said culprit, but not necessarily valued.

At any rate, we are debating semantics. I believe you understood my point, 
and I do get yours.

Of course, then there is the philosophy that NOTHING has value, at all. It is 
what we do that creates value.

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:26 am
Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold





> >What this really boils down to is perception.
> 
> >Nothing has value, except that imposed upon it by those around it.
> 

Ray, in a world of exchanges and marketing and merchandising, I suppose this 
is true.  But if all the palaver about prices and currency "values" are set 
aside, I will make the case that it ISN'T just a matter of perception.

Take my perennial example of potatoes.  If you grew potatoes last summer and 
have some of those stored away, and if you want your Christmas Eve lunch to 
be 
one of those big spuds baked up,  no matter who is or is not around you 
imposing whatever "value", the potato will still have the value of being your 
lunch 
exactly as it would under any circumstances.

Same with the firewood that cooked it, the axe that split that firewood, the 
stove on which you cooked it, etc. etc.  Those things have a direct use value 
that is utterly oblivious to perceptions and surroundings.

When I cooked breakfast this morning, I put in some split up pieces of a 
standing dead poplar in the firebox.  The wood had some X btu's and thus 
making 
use of some of those, it raised the temperature in the tea kettle to boiling 
and 

heated the griddle that made the corn cakes and fried the eggs.  It didn't 
matter whether I percieved it, appreciated it, acknowledged it, valued it, or 
translated it into so many dollars or weight of gold, it STILL raised the 
water 
to boiling.  It also didn't depend on anyone else greeing or acknowledging 
that the water would boil, it did anyway.

Now contrast this to a piece of gold.  What does it do for you?  As you 
pointed out accurately, it makes an inferior bullet.  Unless there is someone 
else 
(a LOT of someone else's) all agreeing and acting on that agreement, the gold 
is worthless.

One of the swashbuckle adventure series that the children (and I) read 
describes a world where all coins are made of steel.  In our vast store of 
family 
kennings is what we call the discount grocery store called "Save a Lot" when 
we 
cryptically refer to it as "Sa
ve some Steel".  The fact that it is gold we 
have this agreement about is purely arbitrary.  It could be anything so long 
as 
there is a limited supply of it, whether that limitation is real or contrived.

So take your lump of gold and get everyone to agree instead that it will be a 
tiger's eye agate instead, both are somewhat limited in supply.  Does that 
make a difference? 

Now suppose that instead of that piece of wood I put on the fire, we suddenly 
change our perception and we value a piece of limestone instead.  Will the 
water in my tea kettle boil?

One is real.  The other is not real and only based on perception.


James 
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