Homestead mailing list

[bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

Good am and Merry Christmas to you, Leslie.  The jagged or serratted edge on 
on a hunting knife is for the same use as its function on any knife --sawing 
motion for tough cutting.

Personally, I would not waste my time with Chinese knives for future barter.  
I realize the Chinese are now manufacturing for some of the better names, but 
that has badly  tarnished the reputation of some of those names.  All of the 
knives I curerently own , hunting or otherwise were made in Germany or the 
U.S.  I don't see a time where I would change that (there are very pricey 
knives of Japanese steel and manufacture and other such, but for a regular 
person, Germany or U.S. is always much better.

The same is true for other 'tools'.  Don't buy cheap Chinese knock-off pistol 
magazines,  Buy them from U.S. or country of origiin.  There are Chinese 
magazines that are fine, but you need to know which. 

 Cheaper is not better with tools.  Same applies to handtools.  I'll bet if 
someone like Don has any Chinese tools, they are carried as a set that might 
be lost or as a back-up because they were cheap.  Chinese tools are better 
than noithing, but usually not good enough to defray the fact that they will 
always be cheap tools.

Binoculars, I don't know.  My pair are from germany, but they are very old.  
Japamese optics since the 60's have been excellent, I have read.

Steel might go back up in price, as will cheap, moderately priced, and 
expensive knives, when that occurs.  But, it is much more likely that pistol 
or rifle full capacity magazines will become more scarce and easier to 
barter, for there are now the present political considerations, also.

I don't know the best set of moderately priced wrenches, for example.  But, 
that might do you better than a big mean looking hunting knife for barter if 
that is your purpose.  

Many options .......  

If you know for a fact that you will be in that place for the future, and 
that it will be 'X' number of people; I would first concentrate (as you 
already are) on all of the needs and desires for those "X" people for 
whatever "Y" amount of time, you fear or plan that you might need.  After 
that , it is all a hedge.  Hedge with what you know best and think will 
travel best and will be most easily exchangable.

Good talking with you on this Christmas am .......................


----------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Thu, 12/25/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 4:49 AM
> A good contingency plan....
>  
>  
>  
> I suspect gold is a good vehicle for storing excess saved
> wealth during very specific periods of time (collapse of
> currency,hyperinflation) and as a way to pass on that wealth
> to heirs without the taxman stealing any.  As well as a
> currency two individuals can use for trade if there is an
> agreement on value.
>  
> For immediate survival needs, tools, ammo etc a very good
> investment.
>  
> I made another excellent "investment" this week
> that I was able to get at wholesale prices, and I'm
> thinking of getting more to use as barter.  Hunting knives
> of various lengths, bone saws, filet knives, skinning
> knives, general all purpose knives, field binoculars (with
> surprisingly good optics).  And of course all made in
> China.....  I figured since I don't know how to make
> steel.... it's a good investment.
>  
> Question.... on the hunting knives.... some of them have
> some wicked jagged edges on the upper side.  What is the
> jagged edge really for?
>  
>  
>  
> Merry Xmas, all
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/24/08, rayzentz AT aim.com
> <rayzentz AT aim.com> wrote:
> 
> From: rayzentz AT aim.com <rayzentz AT aim.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 9:56 AM
> 
> You know, until recently, I was planning on buying more
> gold, but figured it was
> more prudent to stock up on items that may not be
> available..., food, firearms,
> ammo, tools, etc. Those may be of more value than gold, and
> much more readily
> "spendable"
> Ray
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com; homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:41 am
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> 
> 
> 
> Leslie my comments were specific to Dr. Fekete 's
> meaning, using his own
> words : 
> 
> 
> " In the end, no one was willing to exchange gold and
> silver coins for the
> 
> debased coinage of the empire."
> 
> Acoording to him, and others like him, I might add, the
> gold never lost its 
> value; the gold was never debased.  On the contrary,
> because if its innate, 
> intrinsic value, it was hoarded and hidden away, for there
> was nothing left, 
> proclaimed by fiat that had retained enough value that the
> owners of gold were 
> "willing to exchange" their gold.
> 
> Now, Fekete is an uber goldbug.  I find good points in alot
> of his writing; but
> 
> other groups would call him hysterical or even a
> 'nut'.
> There are other finacial sites similar to financial
> sense--the site that you 
> quote.  Some or bigger, some smaller, but they all have
> well written commentary
> 
> by many well educated ,sometimes prominent, men.  Each
> commengtary makes
> perfect 
> sense until you read the next commentary.  There are many
> historical analogies,
> 
> and different ways of interpreting those historical events.
>  Even today, our 
> best economists still disagree on what finally ended the
> great depression, and 
> that wasn't very long ago.
> 
> There is also the factor of price manipulation of
> currencies (including gold if
> 
> you consider gold to be money) by governments and
> financials cartels all
> through 
> history.  Much tales of manipulation are real and much is
> the fabric of told
> & 
> yet untold conspiracy theories.
> 
> Dr. Fekete is just another very smart voice.  try
> 321Gold.com,or  jsmineset.com
> 
> , for a bigger variety of commentary.  JSMineset is the
> most prominent (along 
> with the commentry section of Peter Schiff's
> Europac.net.).  You seem to be
> 
> drifting toward to very worst case senario set; and you
> could very well be 
> right.  I'm still reading and thinking, having not yet
> decided that anyone
> is 
> even close to perfecting predicting the future.  And, I
> always 'hope'
> for a 
> better case scenario..:-) .............
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 12/23/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 10:20 AM
> > No I don't think I misinterpreted.
> > ?
> > In other things I have read, governments, serfdoms,
> > kingdoms,?etc. practiced "clipping" coins
> (i.e
> > they cheated on the value of the coin).? The modern
> day
> > equivalent is clearly seen in US dimes and quarters,
> which
> > are no longer solid silver.? They have been clipped
> > (filled) with other metals.? The US government is
> cheating
> > on the value of coins & paper currency.? The
> exchange
> > of X units of labor for a 100% silver dime, is now
> exchanged
> > for 1/100th% of the same amount of silver via
> > "clipping"/cheating.? (Not an exact number,
> but
> > illustrative for argument.)? This has been a long
> drawn out
> > process of clipping both metal & paper currency in
> the
> > US?spanning some 80-90 years.
> > ?
> > The hoarding events that has lead to current time
> > backwardation probably?has occured?in two stages.? The
> > first being those who hid their gold from the
> government
> > confiscating it some 80-90 ago when the US made it
> illegal -
> > and passed it on to their children.? And the second
> wave
> > starting when the US made it legal to own gold again,
> and
> > then took us off the gold standard in the 1970s
> triggering
> > fear of monetary collapse.? I would venture there are
> a lot
> > of gold bugs who never sold any of the gold they
> purchased
> > in the 70s as back then they understood the collapse
> of the
> > fiat currency was underway regardless of how
> many?years it
> > would take - even if they bought at the top.? I know I
> was
> > in my early twenties, and I understood that back then
> - that
> > gold is to be hoarded and exchanged as the currency
> finishes
> > collapsing.
> > ?
> > Fekete explains hoarding was?a long drawn out event in
> the
> > W. Roman Empire, and in modern times we have a similar
> event
> > going on.
> > ?
> > Backwardation in part is telling us that fewer and
> fewer
> > people?hoardin
> g gold/silver today are willing to exchange
> > it for paper dollars or for those "clipped"
> silver
> > dimes and quarters that are no longer 100% silver.
> > ?
> > Currently the troops are still accepting below minimum
> > wage(?) paid in the form of paper fiat currency.???If
> the
> > government doesn't increase their wages in sync
> with
> > hyperinflation - how long will they stay?? How can
> they
> > feed their families?? 
> > ?
> > There is no doubt in my mind that the US Gov't is,
> and
> > has been for a long time, bankrupt.? So far the US is
> still
> > paying debts by creating more and more currency out of
> thin
> > air.? How long people will continue to accept that
> form of
> > payment is another story.? I do believe we're
> headed
> > for a monetary hyperinflation phase, where the
> currency
> > collapses in the end.? (And not just the US, I believe
> a
> > lot of G-20s are going the same way.)
> > ?
> > What happens after that??
> > ?
> > >From what I've read, hyperinflations do not
> end
> > until governments stop issuing the?collapsing
> currency,
> > issue a new currency, and promise not to debase it by
> > increasing the number of units circulating.? It
> won't
> > work until there is CONfidence that the government
> will stop
> > the clipping.??I wish I knew if that typically happens
> > overnight, or if the next new currency?typically gets
> > clipped again after a short period of CONfidence.?The
> gold
> > bugs may?hoard their gold, even if it means passing to
> the
> > next generation... meaning there is no centralized
> price
> > mechanism.
> > ?
> > How DO people value gold outside of a government
> issued
> > money system - which in part is what I interpreted
> James to
> > be talking about.? You can't eat it, but you can
> use it
> > to trade without others willing to accept it, but what
> is
> > the pricing mechanism?? 
> > ?
> > If the dollar collapses and people are still willing
> to
> > trade gold for say Euro, you have a pricing
> mechanism.? If
> > the Euro collapses, and the Canadian or NZDollar still
> > sports a gold price, you can still exchange it, and so
> on.?
> > After that, how do people come to a cons
> ensus of value - of
> > fair value?? If no one is willing to trade for ANY
> fiat
> > currency, then what?
> > ?
> > The way I read Fekete's article is that during the
> dark
> > ages there was a period where you could not count on
> > gold/silver being used as a medium of exchange.? It
> may
> > have been because there was no way to determine value
> (i.e.
> > how many grams would be worth a dozen eggs, etc.)? He
> > states that gold/silver went into hiding never to
> re-emerge
> > during the lifetime of the original holders.? I assume
> from
> > that that it was passed on from generation to
> generation
> > until such time as there was a reason to swap out into
> a
> > different kind of currency or other medium of exchange
> (as
> > there have been many besides gold/silver).? Of course
> back
> > then, computers and modern transportation did not
> exist to
> > facilitate world wide trading.
> > ?
> > In a Dark Ages II type scenario, you can't eat
> gold,
> > can't wear it, can't heat with it.? However,
> you
> > can pass it to the next generation clandestinely and
> avoid
> > paying taxes to theiving governments.? LOL.? 
> > ?
> > I think Fekete is saying that gold/silver retains
> value as
> > a more wide-spread medium of exchange (whether in
> physical
> > metal or metal backed currency) only when their is
> > wide-spread confidence in the governing body.? 
> > ?
> > Under a chaotic government(s) situation - and limited
> > person to person gold/silver exchange - a large
> > landowner/farmer MIGHT be willing to exchange his
> excess
> > food production for some gold IF his goal is to
> acquire gold
> > for his heirs or for a time when the governing body
> can be
> > trusted again.? However, a small farmer barely able to
> > produce above his own needs is not going to swap his
> one
> > extra chicken for gold if he needs a horse shoe from
> the
> > blacksmith for his plow, and the blacksmith
> doesn't want
> > gold but needs to eat.
> > ?
> > I don't know if the US or the world will decsend
> into
> > another Dark Ages; I don't discount the
> possibility -
> > but I don't have any way of determining how far
> out
> > along the fat tail of a
>  bell curve?the possibility?of a
> > Dark Ages II needs to go.? Of if we will just return
> to a
> > more agrarian society, or what.
> > ?
> > One point that Fekete makes is that he foresees a time
> when
> > there would be no sellers of gold/silver.? I would
> have to
> > think about that for a long time.? But my first
> thought, is
> > maybe initially but, I think in time?some would be
> willing
> > to sell as a last resort (or not knowing the value) to
> those
> > who have excess production, who see gold/silver as a
> future
> > generation(s) way of preserving wealth.? 
> > ?
> > On your point, "Anyone who now believes things
> will
> > become 'that bad', should be out with ropes,
> rifles,
> > pitchforks, and whatever else will kill and maim those
> in
> > power who would allow such a thing to occur."
> > ?
> > True, but in truth WHO allowed it to occur?? WE DID.
> WE
> > who did not rise up in anger at the debasement of the
> > currency and put a stop to it.? WE who understood the
> > consequences and failed to teach values of exchange
> and of
> > production and self-preservation through our own
> efforts.?
> > WE DO deserve to get a new Dark Ages, not because we
> are
> > sitting and waiting for it, but because we failed to
> > recognize the cause of it and failed to prevent it,
> even
> > with all of our accumulated knowledge of thousands of
> years.
> > ?
> > Although ropes and guillotines won't be needed -
> > starvation and disease will take care of it.
> > ?
> > Yes, it echoes of Ayn Rand, but to me it is the much
> more
> > accurate to blame "we" than those in power.
> > ?
> > ?
> > PS CAPS are not "yelling",,,, but meant to
> > emphasis on paper the words I would emphasis in
> person.
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 12/23/08, bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: bobf <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Homestead] More on Gold
> > To: cayadopi AT yahoo.com, homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 11:04 AM
> > 
> > Leslie, I believe you mis-read Dr. Fekets's
> intenet
> > where he draws upon
> > historical anaylis.  He wrote:
> > 
> > "............... causation goes in the opposite
> > direction. The
> 
> > disappearance of gold and silver coins as a means of
> > exchange was a
> > long-drawn-out, cumulative event. In the end, no one
> was
> > willing to exchange
> > gold and silver coins for the debased coinage of the
> > empire. At that point the
> > empire was bankrupt; it could no longer pay the troops
> that
> > defended its
> > boundaries against the barbarians threatening with
> > invasion.'......."
> > 
> > That is to say, that the gold and silver still
> retained
> > their value , in his
> > opinion; but ttheir was nothing left in the fiat
> system
> > worth the trade value of
> > the gold and silver.  And, if we are sitting and
> waiting
> > for a return of the
> > "dark ages", we desrve whatever we get,
> anyway. 
> > Anyone who now
> > believes things will become 'that bad', should
> be
> > out with ropes,
> > rifles, pitchforks, and whatever else will kill and
> maim
> > those in power who
> > would allow such a thing to occur.  Most of us think
> we are
> > witnessing a
> > calamity, but not anything close to a repeat of the
> > 'Dark Ages'.
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 12/23/08, Leslie
> <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > ?
> > > Fekete writes an update on the outlook for the
> value
> > of
> > > gold.? This one is quite interesting as he talks
> > about what
> > > happened to gold/silver during/after the collapse
> of
> > the
> > > Western Roman Empire and the parallels to today.?
> > History
> > > supports James'?points a couple weeks
> ago?that
> > > gold/silvere will have zero value - the pricing
> > mechanism
> > > will be gone.
> > > ?
> > > Fekete warns that gold in backwardation in Dec
> 2008,
> > is
> > > warning, is a premonition of what is coming down
> the
> > road.?
> > > He believes there will be repeated instances of
> > > backwardation, each more severe than the
> preceeding,
> > as
> > > gold/silver go into hiding.? Hyperinflation and
> > ultimately
> > > the collapse of the monetary system - a point
> where
> > > gold/silver will not have a value either, because
> > those
> > > hoarding will not be willing to part with it,
> until
> > such
> > > t
> ime as confidence in a fiat currency returns.? 
> > > ?
> > > After the collapse of the Roman Empire we went
> into
> > the
> > > Dark Ages, where payment in gold/silver could not
> be
> > taken
> > > for granted - gold/silver went into hiding never
> to
> > > re-emerge during the lifetime of the original
> > holders.?
> > > Fekete warns that the disappearance of
> gold/silver is
> > > ominous.
> > > ?
> > >
> > 
> > 
> >       
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
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