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  • From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
  • Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:55:17 -0800 (PST)

Actuallly you are right, you can't learn how to farm from books.  Most
farmers, like me, learn it from our fathers, who learned it from their
fathers.  But if your father wasn't a farmer, you can get the basics from
books.  Then you have to do it yourself.  Books only make it so that you have
some idea.  Its a start, but only through hands on can you know what to do. 
Of course you will make mistakes, but that is how we learn.  It used to be
that all farmers learned from their parents, but there are so few of us
farmers left that books are the only way.

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net> wrote:

From: Lynda <lurine AT softcom.net>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 11:57 PM

Well, you just proved James' point. It isn't "growing up on a
farm" that
has taught you what you know and it sure wasn't learned from books.
You've
acquired knowledge over many, many years of doing. And, you know as well as
the next guy that you can't learn it from books. and you sure can't
learn
about animals from books. You can get some general foundations going but
hands on is needed.

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "william Eggers" <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>


Well, lets see. I grew up on a farm, but it was not like they are now. We
milked about 20 cows, raised a few hogs and chickens. Then I also had my own
dairy farm. I also have had a garden for probably 40 years, or more. Almost
every where I lived, I have had a garden. Of course I have heated with wood.
I have built my own house. Of course, I have raised most livestock you can
mention. And I have raised many of the crops that grow here. Just because I
don't live on a mountain doesn't mean I have not homesteaded. I think
you
are kind of arrogant to think that you are the only one who knows how to
homestead. By the way, most of homesteading is farming. in case you didn't
know.

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>From wce1482 AT yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 11:15:32 2008
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From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
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Does that make you a hobby homesteader?  I do know what you are getting at
with hobby homesteaders.  Those who have everything and only do the
homesteading they want and buy the rest.  Also I must confess that although I
have homesteaded, I am not doing so now.  Now I have an orchard and although
we eat what we want, the main focuss is selling fruit.  So you can say that I
am not a homesteader.  I have also tried homesteading without any outside
income and I can tell you, at least for me, it was impossible.

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Clansgian AT wmconnect.com <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com> wrote:

From: Clansgian AT wmconnect.com <Clansgian AT wmconnect.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 10:49 PM


> > If I am right in thinking that you consider yourself a real
homesteader
> and therefore have no outside sorce of income but get all your living from

> your farm, my hats off to you.

No, no, no, William. Let me be quick to disclaim that. Although you might
not find the actual modus operendi of this homestead quite so admirable, you
surely will find it more interesting still.

This homestead operates on the 'Dinarius Principle' (I made that up,
don't
Google it!) When Jesus was asked whether it was lawful to pay tribute, he
asked
to see a penny (a dinarius, a day's wages). He asked whose image and
superscription was on the coin and they asnwered "Caesar's". So
he said, "Render
unto Caesar the thing's that are Caesar's and unto God the things that
are
God's."

This homestead is self sufficient. If we closed and locked the gates we
could endure twenty years with no outside contact. Sure, our jeans and
Carharts
would be a bit thread bare and the stash of wire and nails might be a bit
thin
by then, but we'ds till survive.

This farmstead is a complex symbiosis of activity. We do not use routinely
use outside fuel, fertilizer, seeds, food, feed, etc.

It is the BASIS of our economy.

Alas, and double alas, we live in Caesar's world. We must per force render

unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. To that end we have cottage
industries. I am a luthier and wood worker. Some people, instead of such an
activity, try their hand at farming. More power to them, but the farming is
something
that takes the place of my woodworking and is not an extension of
homesteading economy itself.

The paradigm is this. We grow things to eat. If there is surplus, that
feeds the animals. If there is surplus beyond that, we sometimes sell it.
But
it
is always incidental.

If I want a computer, digital camera, more than utilitarian pair of boots, a
DVD, a pound of tea; I bestir myself to deal in Caesar's world until I
have
the dinari enough to buy Caesar's goods.

If Caesar's world, or my ability to participate in it, were to collapse,
well, we'd continue on unabated with our homested fare and bedecked in our
homestead costume (had from the Salavation Army store usually) and singing
our
homestead tunes to amuse ourselves.

But if I were to try to pay the taxes or buy a bottle of sake with money had
from an extension of my direct use economy ... why .... I'd be a farmer in
the
agribusiness sense. I'm not. I suck at that. So instead I render unto
Caesar the things that are Caesar's .... and unto Nature the things that
are Hers.


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>From bobford79 AT yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 11:17:25 2008
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Thanks Jeanne: Ayn Rand had the below to say about society, money, laws,
etc.; see how much it appears that we may be headed in her wrong direction :

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"Rise of the double standard" foretold in Atlas Shrugged

If you have never read Atlas Shrugged (1957) by Ayn Rand, you should. In one
passage, a stereotypically "liberal" New York journalist named Bertram
Scudder was overheard by South American copper magnate Francisco d’Aconia
stating to a girl during a social event, "Don’t let him disturb you. You
know, money is the root of all evil – and he’s the typical product of
money."

Rand gave d’Aconia some very excellent lines here to describe "money."
Aside from being, at least from an "individualist" point of view, a concise
and brilliant overview of what money, people, good and evil really are, Rand
used d’Aconia to foreshadow exactly what is happening today. Ironically,
one of Rand’s philosophical devotees was Alan Greenspan—the man who set
in motion the exact circumstances described below.

"...Then you will see the rise of the double standard—the men who live by
force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their
looted money—the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society,
these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against
them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and
looters-by-law—men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed
victims—then money becomes its creators’ avenger. Such looters believe it
safe to rob defenseless men, once they’ve passed a law to disarm them. But
their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they
got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those
most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins
over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and
slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the
barometer of a society’s virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by
consent, but by compulsion—when you see that in order to produce, you need
to obtain permission from men who produce nothing—when you see that money
is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors—when you see that
men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t
protect you against them, but protect them against you—when you see
corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice—you may
know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not
compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not
permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for
money is men’s protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers
seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills
all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an
arbitrary setter of values."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Jeanne Driese <jeanne13 AT earthlink.net> wrote:


Sent to me by a friend...the answer is so obvious, but yet we as a country
just can't seem to "get it"Maybe I should send it to our politicions??
Unfortunatley I don't think they would get it. :(((

> Jeanne
> tnhillwoman
> North East TN zone 6
> A Modern Parable.








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