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[Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>]

EarthNSky wrote:
> 
> Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
>> EarthNSky wrote:
> 
> Ok, yeah, I see where you are coming from, as long as you recognize that 
>   Judaism and Christianity don't have a patent on right and wrong. 
> Cultural 'rules' of wrong/evil are found in many cultures and religions. 
>   That 'stamp out the evil' mentality is everywhere, even in societies 
> where organized religion is not found.  People kill things(figuratively 
> and literally) out of fear of the unknown.
> 
Of course; I just look at what's used to justify some of the worst 
intolerances that I see in this country. Fear (without any religious 
connection) is also a big one, and has been used to get the American 
people to go along with a steady erosion of our rights.
> 
>> That has nothing to do with tolerance. Threatening is illegal, and for 
>> good reason. It is an act against someone and is not acceptable in our 
>> society. No negotiation or compromise.
> 
> So you would go to the police.  Do you see how that would escalate the 
> situation?
> 
I see it as the only way to fight the situation. If someone chooses to 
escalate bad behavior, so be it. Getting a gun would be my next step, 
but I'd prefer not to go there. I don't understand where you are going 
with this. If someone wants your money and will break into your house to 
get it...do you let him do it because to do otherwise might make him 
mad? Or is it shoot, shovel, and shut up? (or the city version of shoot, 
dump the body in the river, and shut up) ;-)
> 
>   Personal freedoms only extend
>> until they start to take away someone else's personal freedoms. The 
>> majority rules on where those lines are.
> 
> But in our overcrowded world, it is almost impossible for incringement 
> not to happen.  Majority rules?  If majority rules, then intolerance 
> gains a foothold.  It cannot be majority rules if everyone's liberties 
> are to be protected. Maybe I misunderstood you somewhere.
> 
You are right, and intolerance HAS gained a foothold. People's liberties 
are NOT protected. They are slowly being taken away.

The majority gave us Bush for a second term. Apparently more people want 
'security' than 'freedom', so we have Homeland Security and a president 
who thinks it's ok to tap citizen's phones and hold people without 
trial. I'm not even sure that it is a majority, but it's the loudest (or 
most powerful) segment of our society, so they win.

I also keep coming back to laws against gays because I see them as one 
of the worst infringements on personal rights. Sexual orientation 
shouldn't be anyone's business. Apparently a lot of people think it's OK 
(or even necessary) to dictate who you can and can't marry, etc. or we 
wouldn't have these laws.
> 
> There are what I
>> consider violations of my personal freedoms in the city...the constant 
>> noise, the drunks screaming in the street at 2am...but these are 
>> accepted by the majority. I didn't like the culture of the city, so 
>> rather than try to change millions of people, I found somewhere I like.
> 
> Are those *really* personal threats though?  It is easy to tolerate a 
> street drunk who is no threat to you.
> 
I don't see them as threats. I see them as infringing on my right to 
peace and quiet at 2am. Their noise invaded my house. A lot of people in 
the city don't see peace and quiet as a 'right'. I did not fit in with 
the majority, and they made the rules (that you are a curmudgeon and a 
bad neighbor if you complain).

> 
> I think most of us fall into that category...the "not in my house, 
> space, backyard" folks...but sooner or later, someone or something whom 
> you can't tolerate will move into your backyard, and that is when the 
> problems begin.  Either you will leave and find a new place, as you did 
> when you left Philly, or you will stay and try to make some kind of 
> peace with your own demons-whatever it is that causes you to react 
> negatively to begin with.

That's why I have 42 acres around me :-) In Philly, everything my 
neighbors did invaded my space...I could hear them arguing through the 
wall, smell their cooking, got their cockroaches, etc. That's accepted 
in city life; I was the odd man out for thinking otherwise.

I believe that I have the right to clean air, clean water, not to be 
subjected to excessive noise, to not have strangers wandering around my 
property, etc. If a neighbor here violates those, there are legal 
remedies. I can't imagine what else a neighbor could do that would be 
'intolerable' to me. The people across the street subdivided and put in 
McMansions. I'm not thrilled, but it's not my property, so they can do 
what they want...if I wanted control over it, I would have had to buy 
it. On the other hand, my neighbor used to shoot his damned golf ball 
cannon into my pasture. I was afraid he'd hit my animals, and running 
over golf balls wreaks havoc with my mower. I nicely asked him to stop, 
and he did. That solved the biggest peril here...getting whacked with a 
golf ball.

Lynn Wigglesworth


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