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[EarthNSky <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
> EarthNSky wrote:
>
> > Right, but there is some contact with those groups or people who 
> > represent those groups.  If there had been no contact, no exposure, 
> > there would have been no perceived threat to protect against and 
> > therefore no 'anti' laws to begin with.  Those laws continue to harm 
> > future generations of people, strangers, that had nothing to do with the 
> > original case.
>
> Again, I disagree. Some people see the mere existence of something as a 
> threat, and that, I think, is where the biggest danger lies. Why is gay 
> marriage banned in so many places? What possible threat is it, except to 
> some people's idea of right and wrong? The Bible says it's wrong, so you 
> don't need an example in front of you to think it's wrong. The hatred of 
> gays was implanted in a person long before that person met anyone gay. 
> The churches/people who are so vehemently against homosexuality in 
> general aren't talking about a specific person or couple...there is no 
> 'original case'. To them, it's just plain wrong, and NO ONE should be 
> allowed to do it. 


Ok, yeah, I see where you are coming from, as long as you recognize that 
 Judaism and Christianity don't have a patent on right and wrong. 
Cultural 'rules' of wrong/evil are found in many cultures and religions. 
 That 'stamp out the evil' mentality is everywhere, even in societies 
where organized religion is not found.  People kill things(figuratively 
and literally) out of fear of the unknown.


> > So since I used you in my example, and since you have delineated the 
> > process above, go back and in the example I suggested about the nasty 
> > gang member who moved in your building and is now threatening you...how 
> > do you negotiate and compromise there?
> That has nothing to do with tolerance. Threatening is illegal, and for 
> good reason. It is an act against someone and is not acceptable in our 
> society. No negotiation or compromise.

So you would go to the police.  Do you see how that would escalate the 
situation?


 Personal freedoms only extend
> until they start to take away someone else's personal freedoms. The 
> majority rules on where those lines are.

But in our overcrowded world, it is almost impossible for incringement 
not to happen.  Majority rules?  If majority rules, then intolerance 
gains a foothold.  It cannot be majority rules if everyone's liberties 
are to be protected. Maybe I misunderstood you somewhere.


> If the person's beliefs in threatening people are that strong, he'll 
> have to go find somewhere where it is acceptable. 

He's not going anywhere, he is coming after you.  He wants your 
apartment with your view.

There are what I
> consider violations of my personal freedoms in the city...the constant 
> noise, the drunks screaming in the street at 2am...but these are 
> accepted by the majority. I didn't like the culture of the city, so 
> rather than try to change millions of people, I found somewhere I like.

Are those *really* personal threats though?  It is easy to tolerate a 
street drunk who is no threat to you.

 And yes, I've known
> > > some atheists who were as intolerant of other people's beliefs as those 
> > > who try to push their religion on others.
> > I'd have to agree with that, too.  But we all draw the lines at 
> > different places so if you line is further away than mine, does that 
> > mean you more more tolerant than me?
>
> I don't know. I don't consider myself overly tolerant if someone's 
> actions affect me. I tolerate smokers, but not in my house. I tolerate 
> anyone's religious views until they come to my house to 'save' me, or 
> try to make me pray their prayers. I'm very much 'live and let live', 
> but also "don't impose you views/morality on me".

I think most of us fall into that category...the "not in my house, 
space, backyard" folks...but sooner or later, someone or something whom 
you can't tolerate will move into your backyard, and that is when the 
problems begin.  Either you will leave and find a new place, as you did 
when you left Philly, or you will stay and try to make some kind of 
peace with your own demons-whatever it is that causes you to react 
negatively to begin with.

Bev


--
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from 
the government and I'm here to help.'"  Ronald Reagan