Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

homestead - Re: [Homestead] peat moss?

homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Homestead mailing list

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Bill Jones <billj AT harborside.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] peat moss?
  • Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 02:20:04 -0800

EarthNSky wrote:

Bill Jones wrote:

I tried to research what exactly makes peat moss acidic in a chem
text, but I'm even more stumped than ever.


I'd like to know what chemistry text even talked about peat moss...


None, of course. No elementary text talks about insoluble acids at all. That phrase has no meaning the way they define acids, aqueously. That's why I asked how an insoluble solid can be acidic, obviously.

It seems to teach that all acids

are water-soluble. Could anyone shed some light on this question?


I reread the posts in this thread, and I am not sure about the question,
but here are some comments..

First and foremost...after I stop laughing-and I almost died laughing
btw, I'll try to answer your "homestead" list questions here on this
'political rag' (I'm being sarcastic here, ring any bells? If not,
review your post to me made last week...Really Bill, sometimes you can
be very rude, and I really don't know why I am responding after what you
said to me last..but...
Acids are proton (H+) donors and they bond readily with hydroxyl
groups(the OH in water), making them soluble.
I'll cut and paste your other post here, for convenience..

Et tu, Bev? Once again, it's the billbashing, not the illumination, that seems to matter, eh?


you know sage, i'm planning to do blueberries in raised beds. the
ones in the ground are pitiful after 10 years. i could never seem to
get enough fertilizer on them.


Most plants decompose with the help of bacteria and those same bacteria
will often suck up nitrogen in the soil. Chances are you mulched and
mulched good to conserve water, but in the process you may have
inadvertently robbed your bushes of nitrogen.
Yes, I'm abundantly familiar with this from using free "manure", and that's what led me to alfalfa. But why did Lynda praise it so?

In my raised beds, I fill
them as high as I can with mulch or other plant material, then I add
manure, usually rabbit manure, to make sure there is enough nitrogen for
the good bacteria AND the plants. If I am not going to plant directly
in them, I will add chicken litter and manure and let that rest for a
few months.


You're a savvy gardener, it seems.

they say that real alkalinity is hard to ovecome.


Is there a fake alkalinity??

I read that seriously alkaline soils, like Sage's, with a pH over 8.0, are difficult to amend well enough to grow anything but Brassicas and such. That's why I recommend raised beds.


in droughty places,

there's never enough rain to wash away sodium buildup. each watering
only adds more. have you tried sulfur? it's the only thing that
works for my farmer/nephew in Yuma. the sodium is still there, but
at least it's neutralized to form sulfites and sulfates.


Who is trying to grow blueberries in salt?<g>
????

I assume you are
referring to sodium salts that form after the water itself evaporates.
Something like calcium sulfate could, in theory, be used for sodium
exchange, but this would be impractical and almost impossible in a home
garden environment, especially in an area where the only water available
for leaching out the replaced sodium ion is rain. And of course, that
is under the assumption that the sodium salt in question is of a soluble
nature and could be ionized and exchanged to begin with.



Is that why Moira was so skeptical? And so am I. Farmers in Yuma, I suspect, just move on, to a different piece of leased land.

i assumed that peat moss was already as leached as can be, so i have
an alternate theory.


First, peat moss is a generic term..there are different kinds of peat
and peat moss, and they are not created equal. Moss peat comes from
mosses, while other peats come from swamp type plants that have
decomposed. Sphagnum peat moss is acid and doesn't rot easily so plants
grow right into it.

But does it resist rotting even when neutralized?

Hypnum peat is neutral or even alkaline. Unlike
sphagnum, it decomposes quickly. West coast peat would probably be
different from east coast peat because the nature of the originating
plant is different as is the nature of the rainfall which adds to the
bog, the geology of the area, etc.






so why not huge

organic molecules left over from anaerobic decomposition of
cellulose, with lots of -COOH groups attached?


You have just described sphagnum peat.

That one sentence was the only answer I ever needed. I suspected that to be true, and it's of more than just theoretical importance. I've found that the hardest element to provide potatoes and other roots, if you don't have enough compost, is potassium. I've taken to soaking sphagnum peat in potassium carbonate solution, in hopes that the potassium ions would cling to it, for gradual release later. It should mimic the effect of compost, as far as potassium is concerned, and we have alfalfa and bone meal for other nutrients. It sure seems to work, but then, I never had a _bad_ crop of yacon. But I didn't really know whether the potassium would rinse right out or not. There are a number of experiments I could devise to test this, but it was easier just to ask.


It seems to me that you are simply trying to grow blueberries in an
alkaline environment when berries like acid. If peat doesn't float your
boat, try pine needles or coffee grounds. Coffee grounds have the added
benefit of adding nitrogen AND acting as a buffer to keep the pH where
you want it. Surely, in the great Pacific Northwest, you have an
abundance of pines and coffee?

Really, it's quite acidic there, I'm sure, but also downhill from the septic tank outlet. I'm darn sure they never got enough fertility. Who knows. I'm doing some new ones in raised beds.

I really do love you, Bev. I apologize if my hatred for political sophistry rubbed off onto you.

Bill
S. Oregon coast








Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page