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[Don Bowen <don.bowen AT earthlink.net>]

At 6/22/2006, you wrote:
> I was wondering about the efficiency aspect of it.  Our neighbor the truck
> driver protested that although fuel prices might triple, still, says he, 
> trucks
> are more efficient than trains.  I dug a bit.  In order to pull (level grade)
> 100 loaded boxcars, it takes four engines the size of his truck engine.
> Doesn't sound like trucks are more efficient to me!  When I quizzed him, 
> he said he
> meant they were more efficient in that you got your load to its destination
> more quickly, two days instead of three.

Rail travel is more fuel and resource efficient than highway 
transport.  Steel wheels on steel rail is one factor.  Trucks beat out 
rails in local deliveries and places where the rails no longer go.

Surprisingly busses rate low in passenger mile efficiency, mostly because 
so many run empty in order to keep a convenient schedule.



Don Bowen              Awl Knotted Up        KI6DIU
http://www.braingarage.com

My travel journal
http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/Journal.html  
> From WarrenSmith AT PalmettoBuilders.net  Thu Jun 22 19:13:37 2006
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Subject: Re: [Homestead] Propane versus electric
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> > I was wondering about the efficiency aspect of it.  Our=20
> > neighbor the truck=20
> > driver protested that although fuel prices might triple,=20
> > still, says he, trucks=20
> > are more efficient than trains.  I dug a bit.  In order to=20
> > pull (level grade)=20
> > 100 loaded boxcars, it takes four engines the size of his=20
> > truck engine. =20
> > Doesn't sound like trucks are more efficient to me!  When I=20
> > quizzed him, he said he=20
> > meant they were more efficient in that you got your load to=20
> > its destination=20
> > more quickly, two days instead of three.

The appropriate study would be to track the energy required to get a
given product from its source to its destination. I don't think a truck
is going to be more efficient transporting bulk coal from a mine to the
power plant- that=92s a one transfer process. But getting potatoes from
Idaho to a restaurant kitchen in Florida may very well be handled more
efficiently by truck. I'm like you, I don't know- I'm just asking.
> > So the figures above are based on potential BTU's?  It=20
> > surpises me a bit but=20
> > it's true a lot more of the heat from the flame heats the air=20
> > than does the=20
> > heat from the electric coil when the pot is matched to the eye.
> >
> > But a couple of things:  Electricity is more efficient once=20
> > it is delivered=20
> > to you, but is it as efficient overall?  I don't know, I'm=20
> > asking.  Using coal=20
> > or natural gas or fuel oil to generate electricity is very=20
> > inefficient, much=20
> > less efficient than making propane or mining natural gas. =20
> > Taking that into=20
> > consideration, is it still more efficient?

I think it has been proven that for most uses, grid power can be
delivered more efficiently than can be produced otherwise, EXCEPT in
applications where heat is desired. Heating water and probably, cooking,
can still best be done with gas or wood. Boiling wort is definitely
better done over a gas flame. Pumping water with a gasoline powered
water pump is very inefficient compared to an electric pump. A rule of
thumb I hear tossed around is you need twice the horsepower in a
gasoline engine to match that of an electric motor, due to
inefficiencies (mainly due to heat loss).

I know what you are about to say James- A horsepower of work is a
horsepower of work. I need to research this a little more.

> > That's got me a bit puzzled.  My propane oven isn't vented. =20
> > It premixes the=20
> > gas and air before it gets to the oven and combusts it=20
> > electronically (the=20
> > oven, alas, doesn't work when the electricity is off).  By=20
> > products other than=20
> > water and C02 are negligible.  I'm not sure how it works that=20
> > gas and air keep=20
> > going into the oven but hot air is not vented, but that's the case.

Of course it is vented- the excess heat is vented to the room. I'm
curious as to what gas stove the clan has that requires power to work.
Anyway, my point here is that if someone has a problem with a gas range
being "dirty", I think they need to tweak the burner carburetors. If
adjusted properly to a blue flame it=92s a damned clean and efficient =
way
to heat food.

Warren

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