Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>]

Dear Bryant,

I did not answer your question, because I was not fully aware of what 
you wanted to know. Now I understand it.

The verbs Bara' (create), Yatsar (form), Asah (make),  are dynamic 
(=change), and durative (=continuing action). These are semantic 
properties, and regardless of stem or aspect, these verbs will 
continue to be durative and dynamic. The verb Hayah (be, become) may 
be stative or fientive and has no semantic property. Some would say 
that the verb Davar (speak) could refer to a single sound or a single 
word, thus being semelfactive. Others would say that it is dynamic 
and durative. So I would not ascribe any semantic property to that 
word.

In some cases two Hebrew words that previously  had different 
meanings have merged into one  word, and the same root can therefore 
have different properties.

It is good to keep in mind that the lexical meaning and Aktionsart of 
a verb are much more important for understanding and translation than 
its aspect (WAYYIQTOL, YIQTOL, QATAL). The temporal reference of a 
Hebrew verb is pragmatic ( it must be taken from the context) and the 
aspect do not generate any meaning, but the aspects can be compared 
to peepholes through which a part of the meaning that already is 
there is made visible.

The following test could give interesting results. Take a few 
passages from the Tanakh, and remove all the prefixes and suffixes 
from the verbs (but add personal pronouns in order to indicate the 
person), and let the students translate the passages. I think they 
will do well without knowing whether the verbs are YIQTOLs, 
WAYYIQTOLs etc.

I see a similar situation when I teach Akkadian. it is not always 
easy for the student to see whether a verb is in the so-called 
present and preterite conjugation, and often in their preparation for 
class, they have not found this out. But still they are able to make 
good translations of the texts.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo




> Dear Rolf,
>
> The examples you give in 1-3 and 5-7 use the following time indicators:
> yesterday - examples 1 & 3;  adverb
> tomorrow - examples 3 & 7; adverb
> from now until 4 - example 3; prepositional phrase with the adverb 
> "now;" until
> is a preposition
> as I am speaking - example 6; "as" is an adverb, pronoun or preposition
> depending on context; in this case, preposition
>
> In English, work is either a noun or transitive verb. As a verb, works is
> present tense. It can also be used as slang word "give him the works."
> Ran is a participle from "run" which can be transitive or 
> intransitive depending
> on the context.
>
> You did not answer my question regarding the following Hebrew words:
>
> Bara'
> Yatsar
> Asah'
> Hayah
> Davar
>
> Do any of the above Hebrew verbs have "uncancellable meaning?" If 
> so, which ones
> with examples would fit the criteria of "uncancellable meaning?"
>
> Now, what I am asking is for you to give examples of Hebrew verbs where
> "uncancellable meaning" is inherent in the verb itself. These examples would
> have to have the same meaning throughout various literary genres for 
> your theory
> to work.
>
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
>
>
> >  Dear Bryant,
> >
> >  I am not sure what you are asking for. In English we have the
> >  participle that can describe actions, as the verb does. The point I
> >  tried to convey was that in English the participle has no intrinsic
> >  tense, but still it can have past, present, and future reference.
> >  This shows there can be a difference between tense and temporal
> >  reference, We can do the same with English present. I take the
> >  example from Broman Olsen who was a native speaker and a linguist. On
> >  the basis of 1)-4) Broman Olsen concludes that English present is not
> >  a tense. And on the basis of 5) -7) she concludes that English simple
>  > past is past tense.
> >  1) So Paul works all yesterday to finish.  (Past)
> >
> >  2) Paul works from now until 4. (present)
> >
> >  3) Paul works tomorrow.  (future)
> >
> >  4) Paul works (Omni-temporal)
> >
> >  5) Matt ran yesterday.
> >
> >  6) #Matt ran as I am speaking.
> >
> >  7) #Matt ran tomorrow.
> >
> >  Please help me understand what you are asking for.
> >
> >
> >  Best regards.
> >
> >  Rolf Furuli
> >  University of Oslo
> >
> >
> >
> >  >Dear Rolf,
> >  >
> >  >[Rolf Said]
> >  >Here I will just say that the comments above are so silly that I am
> >  >completely breathless.
> >  >No linguist will deny that there is a difference between past
> >  >reference and past tense. The English participle has present
> >  >reference in 1), past reference in 2), and future reference in 3).
> >  >But the past reference in 2) does not indicate that the participle
> >  >expresses past tense; it is not a tense.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >1) Right now Rita is walking.
> >  >
> >  >2) Yesterday Rita was walking.
> >  >
> >  >3) Tomorrow Rita will be walking.
> >  >
> >  >[Bryant]
> >  >"Walking" is an English participle. All you have done is add a
> >  >participle with a
> >  >verb of "to be" (walking + to be) with a time reference noun. The
> >  >example number
> >  >2 has "yesterday + was (to be verb)" qualifying as to when in the
> >  >past that the
> >  >action of the subject occured. Without the qualifying time 
> > reference noun all
> >  >one would know is that "Rita was walking."
> >  >
> >  >So please indicate from BH examples in the Tanach the following verbs:
> >  >
> >  >Bara'
> >  >Yatsar
> >  >Asah'
> >  >Hayah
> >  >Davar
> >  >
> >  >Also please indicate the source as narrative, poetry, prophetic, 
> > etc., genre.
> >  >
> >  >If what you say is correct, then would it apply in all of the different
> genres
> >  >found in the Tanach? If not, why?
> >  >
> >  >Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> >
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