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  • From: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
  • Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:44:07 +0200

Dear Bryant,

I did not answer your question, because I was not fully aware of what you wanted to know. Now I understand it.

The verbs Bara' (create), Yatsar (form), Asah (make), are dynamic (=change), and durative (=continuing action). These are semantic properties, and regardless of stem or aspect, these verbs will continue to be durative and dynamic. The verb Hayah (be, become) may be stative or fientive and has no semantic property. Some would say that the verb Davar (speak) could refer to a single sound or a single word, thus being semelfactive. Others would say that it is dynamic and durative. So I would not ascribe any semantic property to that word.

In some cases two Hebrew words that previously had different meanings have merged into one word, and the same root can therefore have different properties.

It is good to keep in mind that the lexical meaning and Aktionsart of a verb are much more important for understanding and translation than its aspect (WAYYIQTOL, YIQTOL, QATAL). The temporal reference of a Hebrew verb is pragmatic ( it must be taken from the context) and the aspect do not generate any meaning, but the aspects can be compared to peepholes through which a part of the meaning that already is there is made visible.

The following test could give interesting results. Take a few passages from the Tanakh, and remove all the prefixes and suffixes from the verbs (but add personal pronouns in order to indicate the person), and let the students translate the passages. I think they will do well without knowing whether the verbs are YIQTOLs, WAYYIQTOLs etc.

I see a similar situation when I teach Akkadian. it is not always easy for the student to see whether a verb is in the so-called present and preterite conjugation, and often in their preparation for class, they have not found this out. But still they are able to make good translations of the texts.


Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo




Dear Rolf,

The examples you give in 1-3 and 5-7 use the following time indicators:
yesterday - examples 1 & 3; adverb
tomorrow - examples 3 & 7; adverb
from now until 4 - example 3; prepositional phrase with the adverb "now;" until
is a preposition
as I am speaking - example 6; "as" is an adverb, pronoun or preposition
depending on context; in this case, preposition

In English, work is either a noun or transitive verb. As a verb, works is
present tense. It can also be used as slang word "give him the works."
Ran is a participle from "run" which can be transitive or intransitive depending
on the context.

You did not answer my question regarding the following Hebrew words:

Bara'
Yatsar
Asah'
Hayah
Davar

Do any of the above Hebrew verbs have "uncancellable meaning?" If so, which ones
with examples would fit the criteria of "uncancellable meaning?"

Now, what I am asking is for you to give examples of Hebrew verbs where
"uncancellable meaning" is inherent in the verb itself. These examples would
have to have the same meaning throughout various literary genres for your theory
to work.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs


Dear Bryant,

I am not sure what you are asking for. In English we have the
participle that can describe actions, as the verb does. The point I
tried to convey was that in English the participle has no intrinsic
tense, but still it can have past, present, and future reference.
This shows there can be a difference between tense and temporal
reference, We can do the same with English present. I take the
example from Broman Olsen who was a native speaker and a linguist. On
the basis of 1)-4) Broman Olsen concludes that English present is not
a tense. And on the basis of 5) -7) she concludes that English simple
> past is past tense.

1) So Paul works all yesterday to finish. (Past)

2) Paul works from now until 4. (present)

3) Paul works tomorrow. (future)

4) Paul works (Omni-temporal)

5) Matt ran yesterday.

6) #Matt ran as I am speaking.

7) #Matt ran tomorrow.

Please help me understand what you are asking for.


Best regards.

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo



>Dear Rolf,
>
>[Rolf Said]
>Here I will just say that the comments above are so silly that I am
>completely breathless.
>No linguist will deny that there is a difference between past
>reference and past tense. The English participle has present
>reference in 1), past reference in 2), and future reference in 3).
>But the past reference in 2) does not indicate that the participle
>expresses past tense; it is not a tense.
>
>
>1) Right now Rita is walking.
>
>2) Yesterday Rita was walking.
>
>3) Tomorrow Rita will be walking.
>
>[Bryant]
>"Walking" is an English participle. All you have done is add a
>participle with a
>verb of "to be" (walking + to be) with a time reference noun. The
>example number
>2 has "yesterday + was (to be verb)" qualifying as to when in the
>past that the
>action of the subject occured. Without the qualifying time reference noun all
>one would know is that "Rita was walking."
>
>So please indicate from BH examples in the Tanach the following verbs:
>
>Bara'
>Yatsar
>Asah'
>Hayah
>Davar
>
>Also please indicate the source as narrative, poetry, prophetic, etc., genre.
>
>If what you say is correct, then would it apply in all of the different
genres
>found in the Tanach? If not, why?
>
>Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

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